Trial Room at McNair

[Barry Doohan]

Are their tours or access to the Trial Room @ Fort McNair? I've tried to find out by searching the web and cannot anything specific. Since this is a military installation, I was not sure you could just show up, present ID and gain access. Thanks

[Rsmyth]

My son- in- law is active military doing his internship at Walter Reed. It was through him that we gained access. Others have been turned away at the gate.

[BettyO]

Are ya'll talking about Killing Lincoln on the NGO Channel? Or the CNN special re: the trial room? I think that's on tonight -

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Regarding access to the facility at McNair; one cannot just show up and walk in supposedly. There is heightened security. However, I know folk have done that and just HOW they got in is beyond me. You have to know someone in order to get in usually.

[LincolnMan]

(01-20-2013 10:58 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Rich, I can only imagine how that must have seemed. Here are the photos taken from approximately the same angle:

Roger-nice side by side comparison. It helps a lot to see it like that. Oh, the wonders of our techno age

[John E.]

(01-21-2013 08:30 AM)Barry Doohan Wrote:  Are their tours or access to the Trial Room @ Fort McNair? I've tried to find out by searching the web and cannot anything specific. Since this is a military installation, I was not sure you could just show up, present ID and gain access. Thanks

Hello Barry,

I believe there are plans for a Grand Opening or some sort of event to mark its completion. Private tours are being conducted for special groups. They are still working on making it look as authentic as possible.

I've been working with a project manager for the Army Corp. of Engineers and other McNair folks for the past 3 years in a limited capacity. I've shared my knowledge of the courtroom, how it looked, where people were seated and what furniture was used, etc.

Not all my recommendations were taken. Unfortunately they chose not to paint the 3 pillars that divide the room - white. They also had limited funds and did not put down cocoa matting on the floor.

The wood floors tend to be a bit noisy and one of the things General Hartranft requested was to have the matting put down to buffer the sound.

They asked me if I knew a carpenter who could help with the railing that separated the prisoner's dock as well as the witness stand. I checked with Betty Ownsbey and she came to the rescue! She referred a carpenter who did the work gratis or at cost. - Not sure which.

At this point, we are hoping to find about 20 spittoons and a 19th century water cooler. We are also hoping to add some smaller tables that were used for evidence and some of the other defense counsel.

[MaddieM]

(01-20-2013 02:09 PM)John E. Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 10:05 AM)BettyO Wrote:  The gallows were back at the edge of the tennis courts - more or less probably between the present day tennis courts AND the back, grassy area shown here. Supposedly, the outline of the door which the prisoners came out of is where the red arrow is and still exits...at least that's what I was once told.

John or Barry will have to answer this one as they are the experts -- but that is what I was told; that this is the door where they existed to go to the gallows -

Hi Betty,

Unfortunately, that information is not accurate. The doorway they exited from on the way to the gallows was part of the building that was demolished in 1867.

If I can pat ourselves on the back for a second, our book will included the most accurate photo overlay ever done. Here's a cropped view that shows the doorway on the far left:

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That is amazing.

[J. Beckert]

Thanks John, for that side by side, but it made me think about something I read which said the conspirators were made to walk by their own graves. Unless I'm missing something in the photos, weren't the grave to the right of the scaffold? If that's the case, they would have come out of the building and immediately walked up the 13 steps.

[wsanto]

(01-21-2013 09:26 PM)J. Beckert Wrote:  Thanks John, for that side by side, but it made me think about something I read which said the conspirators were made to walk by their own graves. Unless I'm missing something in the photos, weren't the grave to the right of the scaffold? If that's the case, they would have come out of the building and immediately walked up the 13 steps.

I saw a picture today (below) on Google Images of the graves and their relation to the gallows. They are indeed on the opposite side of the gallows from the building. They were dug very near the outer wall of the arsenal behind and adjacent to the gallows. The condemned could probably see the freshly dug graves as they walked up the gallow's steps but wouldn't have walked past them

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(01-20-2013 09:54 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Here's a contemporary Smithsonian photograph of the tennis courts at Ft. McNair and Grant Hall. I think the hangings took place near the rear of the tennis courts (?)

Here is another image I hadn't seen of the scene for perspective.



You can use the two chimneys for reference points. They obviously added windows and changed others.

[John E.]

(01-21-2013 09:26 PM)J. Beckert Wrote:  Thanks John, for that side by side, but it made me think about something I read which said the conspirators were made to walk by their own graves. Unless I'm missing something in the photos, weren't the grave to the right of the scaffold? If that's the case, they would have come out of the building and immediately walked up the 13 steps.

Hi J, your eyes aren't deceiving you, the graves are indeed on the right side of the scaffold. The account you are referring to was from one of the prop-knockers named William Coxshall if I recall correctly. The prisoners could see their graves as they climbed the steps but did not walk past them. It makes for a better story though doesn't it?

[J. Beckert]

It does. Thanks!

[Laurie Verge]

I must say that I am surprised that John and Barry were not involved in this CNN presentation. I have dealt with the Army historian assigned to McNair and Myer as well as having a staff member who gave numerous tours of the base over the years (Joan Chaconas) and Mr. Kauffman.

In the past forty years, I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen anyone who has uncovered so much history related to the site and the trial and execution of the conspirators as the dynamic duo of John and Barry. They have shared their vast knowledge twice at Surratt conferences, and it's a shame they couldn't share it with an even larger audience.

Sorry, just had to add my two-cents...

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Surratt "big wigs" will be attending the premiere on the night of February 11 at the National Geographic Headquarters. I would bet that the film will be released for public consumption the next day to coincide with Lincoln's birthday.

The press corps will be touring Surratt House on the morning of the 11th, so as soon as I know, y'all will know.

[John E.]

(01-22-2013 02:09 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote:  I must say that I am surprised that John and Barry were not involved in this CNN presentation. I have dealt with the Army historian assigned to McNair and Myer as well as having a staff member who gave numerous tours of the base over the years (Joan Chaconas) and Mr. Kauffman.

In the past forty years, I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen anyone who has uncovered so much history related to the site and the trial and execution of the conspirators as the dynamic duo of John and Barry. They have shared their vast knowledge twice at Surratt conferences, and it's a shame they couldn't share it with an even larger audience.

Sorry, just had to add my two-cents...

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Surratt "big wigs" will be attending the premiere on the night of February 11 at the National Geographic Headquarters. I would bet that the film will be released for public consumption the next day to coincide with Lincoln's birthday.

The press corps will be touring Surratt House on the morning of the 11th, so as soon as I know, y'all will know.

Wow !! What an endorsement of our work. Thank you very much for the kind words Laurie. It takes all kinds to make the world go round and Barry and I have spent many hours researching those final days inside the walls of the penitentiary.

Mike Kauffman is a renowned expert on all things Lincoln Assassination and carries much more clout than me and Barry on the subject. If we ever get this book completed, they might tap us on the shoulder in the future. We are slowly building up our resumes and getting our names out there.

I don't want to get too mushy but forums like this one as well as the good people of the Surratt Society offer us so much support and encouragement that its kept us going over the last 3 years.

Thanks again.

[BettyO]

I wholeheartedly agree, Laurie!! John and Barry are THE authority on McNair - so many wonderful findings have come out of their research!

[RJNorton]

Well said, Betty. Their research is astounding.

[L Verge]

One word about trying to get on Ft. McNair - it's high security for a very good reason. It's within a mile of the Capitol and the Library of Congress, and I've been told that it's a primary fall-back site if Congress has to be evacuated. Helicopters can get them out of the city in no time.

It is also home to the National Defense University which trains not only our high brass, but also that of a variety of foreign nations.

When I could walk well, I attended monthly meetings there. All cars were stopped and searched from engine to trunk to everything in between and mirrors and detectors were scanned under the car.