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RJNorton · 10-24-2012, 09:57 AM

Can someone explain what the phrase "pray for my intentions" means? It is not a phrase I am familiar with. I was looking at Weichmann's book, and if the timing in Weichmann's book is correct, this reference comes shortly after the "mysterious" 9:00 P.M. visitor departed. Weichmann indicates Mrs. Surratt got very nervous after this visitor departed. At 9:30 I think Smoot found her in a state of feverish excitement and rushed him out the door. Mary then asked Weichmann to pray for her intentions. Is there any way this could be interpreted as her intention to hold on to Booth's stuff for a quick 10:30 pick up? When Weichmann indicated he didn't know what her intentions were she replied to pray for them anyway. She then chased everyone to their rooms. Weichmann says he was asleep when the president was shot. Do we know what Mrs. Surratt was doing at 10:30?

JMadonna · 10-24-2012, 10:32 AM

(10-23-2012 07:14 PM)L Verge Wrote: Let's not get hot under the collar about this. Let's continue to theorize and defend our beliefs. Who knows, there might be an answer out there with documentation behind it.

Laurie,
Here's my problem - we know what we know. There are no more answers out there with documentation behind it. Even if we found something it would be attacked mercilessly by skeptics.

The story we know has some obvious holes in it that our predecessors have chosen to ignore. Some have chosen to fill them with explanations that have been taken as fact over the years.

What I find frustrating is when someone who knows the story and is willing to challenge the status-quo with a better explanation of facts is trivialized by nothing more than wild-eyed speculation. Maybe it's true that a prophet in his own country is without honor.

Now as an 'old teacher' myself I'm all for give and take but if you want to challenge Bill's theory or add to it you have to follow the sequence of events.

What changed about Booth from his appearance in the theater until he showed up at the bridge. What did he have there that he didn't have here or vice versa? For example I don't think he had a broken leg since I could find nothing in the record to support that claim.

Is there anything in the record between Johnny Peanuts and Sgt. Cobb? If not then any speculation is possible but IMO it must be more logical than a stop at the boarding house.

BettyO · 10-24-2012, 10:48 AM

(10-24-2012 09:57 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Can someone explain what the phrase "pray for my intentions" means? It is not a phrase I am familiar with. I was looking at Weichmann's book, and if the timing in Weichmann's book is correct, this reference comes shortly after the "mysterious" 9:00 P.M. visitor departed. Weichmann indicates Mrs. Surratt got very nervous after this visitor departed. At 9:30 I think Smoot found her in a state of feverish excitement and rushed him out the door. Mary then asked Weichmann to pray for her intentions. Is there any way this could be interpreted as her intention to hold on to Booth's stuff for a quick 10:30 pick up? When Weichmann indicated he didn't know what her intentions were she replied to pray for them anyway. She then chased everyone to their rooms. Weichmann says he was asleep when the president was shot. Do we know what Mrs. Surratt was doing at 10:30?

That is a Catholic request for prayer, I think Roger. I'm not Catholic, so don't really know, although I have a lot of Catholic friends (and Father K was one of my dearest friends) - so I think that is what it is in reference to.

Laurie Verge · (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012 01:18 PM by Laurie Verge.)

Jerry,

I understand your thoughts and frustrations and have heard them from many an authority - even the great ones like James O. Hall - when their logic is telling them one thing, but they can't find evidence to document it. I don't think that the good researchers ignore things, I think they are trained to not put it in non-fiction print without the facts to back it up.

However, to me, it's the nagging little "what ifs" that keep the good researchers going. I bet right now that several people on this forum are going to be pursuing their thoughts even further. Each generation breeds new researchers who might miss something that earlier people overlooked or didn't connect the dots. A good example of this is the burial site of George Atzerodt. For thirty-plus years, we thought that the conspirator had been secretly buried in St. Paul's Lutheran Cemetery in Baltimore. Dave Taylor recently presented some substantial evidence that his remains are likely still in Washington.

My point is that, as long as we keep bouncing ideas off each other, the more likely it is that something documentable will pop up.

John Fazio · 10-24-2012, 01:00 PM

Hello Everyone:

A couple of days ago I responded to Bill Richter's original communication re the suggestion that Booth might have stopped at the boarding-house on his way out of the city. Bill took offense at my response, which surprised me somewhat inasmuch as my principal target was O'Reilly and Dugard, not Bill. From his response, I gleaned that I had missed something in his original communication, so I went back and re-read it. I had iindeed missed something, namely the fact that Bill offered the possibility as a plausible fiction for an historical novel rather that as historical truth. Missing that point, I shot from the hip. It was a mistake and I'm sorry for it. I have already expressed my regret to Bill.

As far as I am concerned, with fiction it is Black Flag warfare, i.e. anything goes. As a plausible scenario for an historical novel, I believe a stop by Booth at the boarding-house works fine, as long as he doesn't stay too long. As an historical truth, however, I still feel it is a very remote possibility.

Bottom line: Make sure brain is in gear before hitting the keyboard.

John

Bill Richter · 10-24-2012, 01:28 PM

I, too, would like to apologize to John Fazio--and to the forum. As those of you who know me will testify, I am no slouch at shooting from the hip, myself. Fortunately, we both missed and decided to follow Laurie's advice to all of us this morning and to return to a more moderate discussion. I find John to be a gentleman and a scholar and am pleased to call him my friend, even though we might disagree as to the possibility of JWB stopping at the town house after the assassination. Thank you, John, once again.

JMadonna · 10-24-2012, 01:33 PM

(10-24-2012 09:57 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Can someone explain what the phrase "pray for my intentions" means?

Literally, it means I'm praying to God for special favors. When you pray to God ask him to grant my plea.
It's a takeoff from the Bible quote "whenever two or more of you are gathered in My Name, I am there".

Laurie Verge · 10-24-2012, 01:48 PM

I need an edumacation from some of our male fashionistas. In the opening post of this discussion, Bill mentions Frankie Mudd noticing the pistols "still strapped on and uncomfortable" for Booth. If men had not invented belts yet to hold up their pants, I'm assuming that they had not invented gun belts either. If this is the case, what "straps" was Mrs. Mudd seeing? Did they make gun belts and holsters before they made regular belts?

If the pistols were strapped on, then what are we arguing about? Wouldn't Booth have strapped them on before entering the theater? I'm so confused...

J. Beckert · 10-24-2012, 01:59 PM

Sure they had gun belts then, Laurie. Here's Corbett wearing one.

[Image: codo.jpg]

Wearing a gun, even with a holster, is uncomfortable. Any soldier issued a sidearm in the Civil War would wear one, but how Booth had his on is unclear from that brief statement. I would think he just secured them to his body as best he could. Wearing a gun belt (garrison belt) would be quite a burden if Booth's back hurt as badly as he said it did. I also wore a Sam Browne belt, which fastens to the back of the holster and over the shoulder, across the chest and back to the front of the holster. Any time I threw my back out, it was very uncomfortable to wear those belts.

RJNorton · 10-24-2012, 02:25 PM

(10-24-2012 01:33 PM)JMadonna Wrote: Literally, it means I'm praying to God for special favors.

Could it mean she was asking God's forgiveness for harboring Booth's pistols while he assassinated the president?

Basically I am curious about her making this statement at this particular time...i.e. right after Booth departed the boardinghouse and headed to the theater to assassinate Lincoln. Isn't she admitting she's up to her neck in his plot?

Or am I misunderstanding what she is saying?

BettyO · 10-24-2012, 02:59 PM

(10-24-2012 01:59 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: Sure they had gun belts then, Laurie. Here's Corbett wearing one.

Wearing a gun, even with a holster, is uncomfortable. Any soldier issued a sidearm in the Civil War would wear one, but how Booth had his on is unclear from that brief statement. I would think he just secured them to his body as best he could. Wearing a gun belt (garrison belt) would be quite a burden if Booth's back hurt as badly as he said it did. I also wore a Sam Browne belt, which fastens to the back of the holster and over the shoulder, across the chest and back to the front of the holster. Any time I threw my back out, it was very uncomfortable to wear those belts.

Gun belts were available for men. They just didn't hold up their trousers with them! Scabbards were also attached to belts over the soldier's tunics/blouses.

Laurie Verge · 10-24-2012, 03:27 PM

I really am getting old! I knew full well that the military wore gun belts of some sort and had for centuries. I guess I was only thinking in the terms of a civilian...duh! I'm going back to my rocking chair to continue drooling.

What would have prevented Booth from strapping on such a gun belt before he rode up to the back of Ford's? I'm now torn between my original theory of the guns being gotten from Dr. Mudd and this revelation (to me) that Booth rode into Dodge with the pistols secured on his body and hidden by his frock coat.

BettyO · 10-24-2012, 04:20 PM

Laurie - I thought the same thing about Powell. But Fred Seward saw Lew pull his gun from his pocket. I don't know where his knife was unless it was in his boot top. There IS a sheath which MUST have attached to his saddle. No sheath was listed in his effects....

JMadonna · 10-24-2012, 04:47 PM

(10-24-2012 02:25 PM)RJNorton Wrote:
(10-24-2012 01:33 PM)JMadonna Wrote: Literally, it means I'm praying to God for special favors.

Could it mean she was asking God's forgiveness for harboring Booth's pistols while he assassinated the president?

Basically I am curious about her making this statement at this particular time...i.e. right after Booth departed the boardinghouse and headed to the theater to assassinate Lincoln. Isn't she admitting she's up to her neck in his plot?

Or am I misunderstanding what she is saying?

Roger,

It is a possibility.

If she knew that Booth was going to shoot the president then I'd say its more a probablility then not.

If she thought it was a kidnapping then it could be a prayer that no harm comes to the president or Booth's gang.

Some religous people always ask others to pray for them and they return the favor in their prayers. Did Mary Surratt use this phrase often or rarely?

If she didn't tell Weichmann what her intentions were chances are good there was some sinning going on.

Linda Anderson · 10-24-2012, 04:48 PM

(10-24-2012 02:25 PM)RJNorton Wrote:
(10-24-2012 01:33 PM)JMadonna Wrote: Literally, it means I'm praying to God for special favors.

Could it mean she was asking God's forgiveness for harboring Booth's pistols while he assassinated the president?

Basically I am curious about her making this statement at this particular time...i.e. right after Booth departed the boardinghouse and headed to the theater to assassinate Lincoln. Isn't she admitting she's up to her neck in his plot?

Or am I misunderstanding what she is saying?

Weichmann writes that "she had a pair of prayer beads in her hands and once she asked me to pray for her intentions. I answered her by saying that I did not know what her intentions were. She then said to pray for them anyhow. This is a matter essentially Catholic and it is a common thing for Catholic persons to pray for one another's intentions."

Mary may have been praying the Rosary when she asked Weichmann to pray for her intentions. I don't think she was asking for forgiveness because I don't think she considered that helping Booth was a sin. I would guess she was praying for Booth's plan to succeed.

There's more information on praying the Rosary at: http://www.catholicity.com/prayer/rosary.html

"Practically everyone who prays the Rosary "offers" the Rosary to God and Our Lady for an intention. Some people offer particular intentions before each decade. You can ask God to grant you a favor, heal a sick person, or convert a sinner. Some people offer the same intention every day--sometimes for years on end--especially when asking the Father for the conversion of a particular person. Intentions are as varied as the people who pray."

Also, a "pair" of Rosary beads is only one set.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm