Similarities Between Lincoln and Trump

[L Verge]

(08-28-2018 11:08 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 09:22 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Thank you, David, for your personal assessment of Donald Trump. I would prefer that you respond to my next question via my email at work, rather than on this forum -- however, you are from San Francisco, I believe, what is your opinion of Nancy Pelosi?

laurie.verge@pgparks.com

Laurie, you can start a new thread - "RE: Similarities Between Pelosi and Trump"

In my opinion, there are many fewer dissimilarities between Pelosi and Trump than there are between Lincoln and Trump. I am certain that we will have many fewer disagreements on this new thread.

Should I respond to your posts on this new thread to your email at work or make my posts on this forum?

I am taking that to mean that you are not particularly fond of Mrs. Pelosi's political skills either, and I am fine with that. I will not subject this audience to my views, and you do not need to send me yours via email.

[David Lockmiller]

(08-28-2018 09:22 AM)L Verge Wrote:  You are from San Francisco, I believe, what is your opinion of Nancy Pelosi?

Speaking of personal opinions of members of Congress, what is your opinion of Duncan Hunter, one of the very earliest Congressional supporters of "Trump for President?" It was reported today that "despite a federal indictment, a new poll shows that Representative Duncan Hunter is still eight percentage points ahead of his Democratic challenger in the race to represent the 50th Congressional District." [The San Diego Union-Tribune] Is not Republican U.S. Representative Duncan Hunter one of those who you say "love themselves and their power more than they do the principles of democracy on which our country depends?" Interestingly enough, his name could not be removed from the ballot here in California because of legislated election rules.

And what about New York Republican Representative Chris Collins who was arrested recently by the FBI alongside his son and the father of his son’s fiancée on insider trading charges. Collins has become an important figure in Washington politics under President Trump. He was the first congressional Republican to endorse the president’s candidacy and he’s one of Trump’s close confidants on Capitol Hill.

Birds of a feather, flock together!

---

(08-28-2018 11:44 AM)L Verge Wrote:  I am taking that to mean that you are not particularly fond of Mrs. Pelosi's political skills either.

It is not Mrs. Pelosi's political skills to which I object. It is one of her political positions to which I and many others within her Congressional district strongly objected and have done so for many years. She declared essentially at the outset of discussion of this issue with her constituents that she was the only one in the forum with a vote in Congress and our opinions were of no consequence as regarded her decision to which she has remained steadfast and consistent.

I have never voted for her again and that experience was many years ago.

[My Name Is Kate]

"The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress."

https://www.military.com/flag-day/us-flag-code.html

The White House flag was at half-mast on Saturday and Sunday following McCain's death, and raised on Monday, in accordance with U.S. Flag Code. President Trump has since ordered that the flag remain at half-mast until McCain's interment.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/...urial.html

On a side note, liberals were the most vocal group against the Vietnam war while it was happening. Now, anyone (Trump in particular) who did not serve in that war is labeled a coward and a traitor by liberals.

[David Lockmiller]

(08-28-2018 01:53 PM)My Name Is Kate Wrote:  On a side note, liberals were the most vocal group against the Vietnam war while it was happening. Now, anyone (Trump in particular) who did not serve in that war is labeled a coward and a traitor by liberals.

I was drafted into the Army near the end of the Viet Nam War. There were many Americans my age at that time who fled to Canada as a matter of conscience in accordance with their beliefs. I have never labeled such people as either a coward or a traitor. And, I never will do so.

Mohammed Ali is another conscientious objector hero of mine. He once said: "He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life." He went to jail because of his beliefs. He was a champion in more than one respect.

There is no doubt that I consider myself a liberal. I worked desperately to gain the Democratic Party presidential nomination for Bernie Sanders. According to all of the polls at the time, he would have easily defeated Donald Trump.

Just three days ago the Democratic Party agreed to overhaul the Democratic superdelegate system that defeated Bernie Sanders for the nomination. Liberals like me were against the system at the time and voiced our objections. I did so many times in the comment sections of New York Times articles supporting Hillary Clinton's nomination. "Supporters of Mr. Sanders said these insiders — mostly elected officials, party leaders and donors — were emblematic of a “rigged” nomination system favoring Mrs. Clinton."

Nancy Pelosi made no discernible effort to level the playing field in that election. There's another strike against her.

I am really unconvinced that the Democratic Party bosses have done enough to level the playing field for a true democratic nomination process for President in the future.

According to the New York Times story (previously quoted from above), Democrats Overhaul Controversial Superdelegate System:

"Under the new plan, which was agreed to on Saturday afternoon in Chicago at the Democratic National Committee’s annual summer meetings, superdelegates retain their power to back any candidate regardless of how the public votes. They will now be largely barred, however, from participating in the first ballot of the presidential nominating process at the party’s convention — drastically diluting their power."

During the first ballot, many states vote unanimously for a favorite son or daughter. So, there is very little possibility that any candidate will be a majority winner on the first ballot.

Then, "mostly elected officials, party leaders and donors" superdelegates get to vote equally with the delegates who got to the convention by direct citizen votes. Democrat and Republican Party elites give up their power very reluctantly, if at all.

[My Name Is Kate]

(08-28-2018 07:48 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Regarding Donald's genuine love for his country, talk about his repeated draft avoidance during the Viet Nam War...

David, it sounds very much like you are calling President Trump a coward and a traitor for not serving in the Vietnam War. As I'm sure you know, Bernie Sanders also never served in the Vietnam War or the military either. He went the "conscientious objector" route to avoid serving, an excuse that the military eventually rejected. At least Trump did attend a military school (New York Military Academy).

(08-28-2018 07:48 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  According to all of the polls at the time, he [Sanders] would have easily defeated Donald Trump.

The same polls that predicted Hillary in a landslide.

You might want to consider not posting your current political views and your opinion of the current president, on this forum. People reading this forum may begin to get the idea that you don't know anything about Lincoln either.

[L Verge]

I agree that we need to discontinue these personal opinions of modern politics and politicians, but I have one more question before I shut up: How has William Jefferson Clinton managed to commit so many faux pas (sex scandals, draft dodging, etc.) over the years (both in and out of office) that caused a media frenzy, and now he's a squeaky clean, shining star in the eyes of many.

I have previously mentioned the book One Nation Under Sex, which tastefully presents documented history of Presidents, First Ladies, Cabinet and Congress members, and major political kingpins whose antics have been covered over the years -- some were discreet and some were blatant and could have affected the course of the country. Evidently, their behavior was accepted, and the country moved on.

While not sexual in nature (that innuendo is just popping up widespread in the past decade or so), Lincoln and his policies received some of the worst press of any President. He's now an American icon. Go figure...

[Eva Elisabeth]

Allow me to remark as for Muhammad Ali - how can someone be a hero who produced nine children with four different wives, three of whom he divorced? (My personal opinion - thumb down.)

[My Name Is Kate]

And who scored an IQ of 78 on his armed services exam, and whose favorite and oft-repeated personal motto was "I am the greatest." Talk about a narcissist in love with himself.

[AussieMick]

Kate and Eva, I'm not one of those who think Ali could do no wrong. But I dont think intellectual capacity is a priority for a world champion boxer. As for him claiming to be the greatest ( I think thats a very difficult thing to judge over the long history of boxing ... but, yep, I'd put him in the top 4)... but you've got to believe in yourself if you want to be the best.

His married life and capability as a father? Obviously far from perfect. But then who is? And I think he was aware of his failings in that area , at least as much as most men are.

Did he have a habit of saying he was good-looking? Yep. And it sold tickets at high prices to the fights ... and boosted his income.

You dont get to be heavyweight boxing champion of the world by being a shy flower.

[Eva Elisabeth]

While no one might be perfect he violated integrity too much for my taste to judge him a hero (anyway we Germans don't have heroes but roles models, and this doesn't serve as a role model anymore, whatever his knock out skills).

[My Name Is Kate]

AussieMick: The point I was trying to make is that the same person who hates Donald Trump because he supposedly loves only himself, idolizes Ali, whose motto was "I am the greatest." Trump is a coward and traitor for not serving in Vietnam; Ali is a conscientious person who had high morals that wouldn't allow him to serve. Trump cheats on his wife; Ali was...what...a ladykiller? But Trump gave up a great life to become president and try to save this country from liberalism; Ali was just a boxer. And you're right; it doesn't take a genius to be a boxer, but an IQ of 78 is borderline mental retardation.

[AussieMick]

Ah ... I agree. There's an enormous amount of dopey anti-Trump nonsense spouted for political reasons.

[David Lockmiller]

(08-29-2018 08:50 PM)AussieMick Wrote:  There's an enormous amount of dopey anti-Trump nonsense spouted for political reasons.

Here's what I think is "dopey."

“You know when Abraham Lincoln made the Gettysburg Address speech, the great speech, you know he was ridiculed?” Trump told a rally in Montana on Thursday. “Fifty years after his death they said it may have been the greatest speech ever made in America. I have a feeling that’s going to happen with us. In different ways, that’s going to happen with us.”

[AussieMick]

(09-08-2018 04:37 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 08:50 PM)AussieMick Wrote:  There's an enormous amount of dopey anti-Trump nonsense spouted for political reasons.

Here's what I think is "dopey."

“You know when Abraham Lincoln made the Gettysburg Address speech, the great speech, you know he was ridiculed?” Trump told a rally in Montana on Thursday. “Fifty years after his death they said it may have been the greatest speech ever made in America. I have a feeling that’s going to happen with us. In different ways, that’s going to happen with us.”

Yes, David. President Trump does indeed say (and tweet) some very strange things. He's an enigma for sure. I certainly wouldnt claim to understand him. And I'm sure that those on the political Left are struggling too. I can understand them criticising Trump's weird and peculiar comments. But sometimes in their haste to attack they fall over themselves and , yes, make dopey comments. The result is false news or just plain poor journalism.
(We have a TV channel in Australia which is , in my view, very Left wing and is often taking the anti-Trump line).

Maybe there are indeed similarities with Lincoln. I believe that he received plenty of unfair comments by politically aligned journalists ... which often resulted in his standing amongst the community being increased. And I believe that he gave as good as he got.

[David Lockmiller]

(09-08-2018 05:11 AM)AussieMick Wrote:  

(09-08-2018 04:37 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 08:50 PM)AussieMick Wrote:  There's an enormous amount of dopey anti-Trump nonsense spouted for political reasons.

Here's what I think is "dopey."

“You know when Abraham Lincoln made the Gettysburg Address speech, the great speech, you know he was ridiculed?” Trump told a rally in Montana on Thursday. “Fifty years after his death they said it may have been the greatest speech ever made in America. I have a feeling that’s going to happen with us. In different ways, that’s going to happen with us.”

Yes, David. President Trump does indeed say (and tweet) some very strange things. He's an enigma for sure. I certainly wouldnt claim to understand him. And I'm sure that those on the political Left are struggling too. I can understand them criticising Trump's weird and peculiar comments. But sometimes in their haste to attack they fall over themselves and , yes, make dopey comments. The result is false news or just plain poor journalism.
(We have a TV channel in Australia which is , in my view, very Left wing and is often taking the anti-Trump line).

Maybe there are indeed similarities with Lincoln. I believe that he received plenty of unfair comments by politically aligned journalists ... which often resulted in his standing amongst the community being increased. And I believe that he gave as good as he got.

Here is a comment that I posted today to the New York Times editorial titled "Confirmed: Brett Kavanaugh Can’t Be Trusted."

The Editorial Board made this subtitle commentary:

"A perfect nominee for a president with no clear relation to the truth."

In my opinion, there are times that the Editorial Board of the New York Times has "no clear relation to the truth."


David Lockmiller
San Francisco 3h ago
But for the New York Times Editorial Board and the biased reporting and columnists' opinions (especially Krugman), We the People could have had Bernie Sanders as President. But the New York Times wanted Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic Party nominee and so it came to be (in no small part because of the role of superdelegates, instead of ordinary citizens, in deciding the Democratic Party nominee). But the Editorial Board made little or no objection to this undemocratic Democratic Party process.

My comment has already received 2 recommendations; mine was half of the total.