Mary''s other clothes ?

[Gene C]

(04-03-2018 10:06 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  Until someone shows me some 19th-century references to use of tear bottles, such as being mentioned in advertisements for mourning goods or in letters and diaries, or shown in illustrations, I'm going to have to remain a skeptic. The only Victorian references I've ever seen are to the tear bottles supposedly used in ancient Egypt. Someone else did a search and came up with only these results:

http://hauntedohiobooks.com/news/13531/

Tear bottles or tear catchers were mentioned two years ago on the thread "Skull of Civil War Soldier to be Auctioned", post #8 and #10.
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...-1723.html

Interesting...

[Donna McCreary]

Add funeral candy to the list also. I found reference to this being a Swedish custom. The wrappers are designed in black with death motifs, etc. One made reference to the paper even having tassels on the ends -- the length of which was determined by the social stature of the deceased.
[/quote]


There use to be a funeral customs museum in Springfield. I always loved visiting it and was surprised that it closed. In their gift shop area, they sold chocolate candies shaped like coffins with white chocolate skulls and skeletons. A little too macabre for my taste, but I can understand the appeal.

[L Verge]

I have several friends who visited that museum and LOVED it. I was gifted with some of those candy coffins. Never had the nerve to eat them, however.

One year, we had tiny (no longer than six inches) coffins for sale in the gift shop. They were designed to be jewelry boxes. I have also had two friends who bought their own antique coffins and used them as coffee tables until their demise. One has to maintain a sense of humor when dealing with all aspects of the Lincoln assassination...

[kerry]

She wore a wrapper at times, although it doesn't get many mentions because it was private attire, but many accounts of her everyday life during the war talk about her conspicuous mourning attire at church. When she wasn't in mourning, she appears to have been pretty dressed up while shopping or visiting hospitals. The night Lincoln was shot she apparently had on a notably simple dress. I thought velvet was a mourning material? Her letters to Ruth Harris for mourning bonnets are heavy on the velvet.

[Donna McCreary]

(04-04-2018 10:11 PM)kerry Wrote:  She wore a wrapper at times, although it doesn't get many mentions because it was private attire, but many accounts of her everyday life during the war talk about her conspicuous mourning attire at church. When she wasn't in mourning, she appears to have been pretty dressed up while shopping or visiting hospitals. The night Lincoln was shot she apparently had on a notably simple dress. I thought velvet was a mourning material? Her letters to Ruth Harris for mourning bonnets are heavy on the velvet.

I should clarify my earlier statement. When I went back and reread it, I realized there may be some confusion. Black velvet was worn in later stages of mourning, but not the first stage.
I am not sure all of ML's letters to Ruth Harris were for mourning bonnets.

Yes, Kerry, there are references to Mary wearing a wrapper. She was wearing a white cashmere wrapper when she met Elizabeth Keckly.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(04-03-2018 01:42 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have several friends who visited that museum and LOVED it. I was gifted with some of those candy coffins. Never had the nerve to eat them, however.

One year, we had tiny (no longer than six inches) coffins for sale in the gift shop. They were designed to be jewelry boxes. I have also had two friends who bought their own antique coffins and used them as coffee tables until their demise. One has to maintain a sense of humor when dealing with all aspects of the Lincoln assassination...

Like Ishmael, no?
I rember these being "hype" for awhile in my youth (sometime in the 1980s, decades before Halloween came over) but never have seen them again since. No wonder, they tasted horribly (just sugar, awfully flavored...):
   

[Anita]

Just to say how much I am learning and enjoying the posts here. My daughter is seriously ill and I am spending a lot of time with her at City of Hope and with my four grandchildren.

Would Mary have followed the same mourning protocol after Eddie's death, clothing, etc.?

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(04-02-2018 10:32 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  "Tear bottles" are nothing more than perfume bottles. Some clever antique dealer got the notion of describing them as "tear bottles" in order to make them more marketable. Here's a good article that debunks the myth:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/te...yth-bottle

"Tear bottles" and the equally fictitious story that the Victorians used posing stands to prop up corpses in order to make them look "lifelike" for photographs (they actually used the stands to help living people hold still) have pretty much taken over the Internet, unfortunately.

Thanks Susan. I too assumed tear vials were used in Victorian times. Just read up on it. A combo fake history and snake oil!

[Susan Higginbotham]

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter.

I get the impression that mourning rules got stricter as the 19th century moved on, but that American rules were never as rigid as British ones. Florence Hartley wrote in an 1860 etiquette guide:

"Mourning—There is such a variety of opinion upon the subject of mourning, that it is extremely difficult to lay down any general rules upon the subject. Some wear very close black for a long period, for a distant relative; whilst others will wear dressy mourning for a short time in a case of death in the immediate family. There is no rule either for the depth of mourning, or the time when it may be laid aside, and I must confine my remarks to the different degrees of mourning.

"For deep mourning, the dress should be of bombazine, Parramatta cloth, delaine, barege, or merino, made up over black lining. The only appropriate trimming is a deep fold, either of the same material or of crape. The shawl or cloak must be of plain black, without border or trimming, unless a fold of crape be put on the cloak; the bonnet should be of crape, made perfectly plain, with crape facings, unless the widow's cap be worn, and a deep crape veil should be thrown over both face and bonnet. Black crape collar and sleeves, and black boots and gloves. The next degree is to wear white collar and sleeves, a bow of crape upon the bonnet, and plain white lace facings, leaving off the crape veil, and substituting one of plain black net. A little later, black silk without any gloss, trimmed with crape, may be worn, and delaine or bombazine, with a trimming of broad, plain ribbon, or a bias fold of silk. The next stage admits [33] a silk bonnet trimmed with crape, and lead color, dark purple, or white figures on the dress. From this the mourning passes into second mourning. Here a straw bonnet, trimmed with black ribbon or crape flowers, or a silk bonnet with black flowers on the outside, and white ones in the face, a black silk dress, and gray shawl or cloak, may be worn. Lead color, purple, lavender, and white, are all admissible in second mourning, and the dress may be lightened gradually, a white bonnet, shawl, and light purple or lavender dress, being the dress usually worn last, before the mourning is thrown aside entirely, and colors resumed. It is especially to be recommended to buy always the best materials when making up mourning. Crape and woolen goods of the finest quality are very expensive, but a cheaper article will wear miserably; there is no greater error in economy than purchasing cheap mourning, for no goods are so inferior, or wear out and grow rusty so soon."

[Anita]

In post #14 discussion Donna wrote "As previously mentioned, women in the first stage of mourning could not wear any fabric with a sheen. The color became known as "dead black." Crepe was often used to make the weeping veil, which when in public, a lady was expected to wear down over her face. This was an unspoken request for privacy. If a woman's veil was down, no one could speak to her, and she was to speak to no one. To make matters worse, it is believed that crepe was made by soaking the fabric in formaldehyde. With such a toxic chemical worn so close to the face, one wonders about the meaning behind "getting the vapors."

Just found this this comprehensive article by Jocelyn Sears Mar 29, 2018, 9:30am EDT. Fascinating and scary, especially the medical reports of the day.
https://www.racked.com/2018/3/29/1715681...rning-veil

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(04-06-2018 12:30 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter.

I get the impression that mourning rules got stricter as the 19th century moved on, but that American rules were never as rigid as British ones. Florence Hartley wrote in an 1860 etiquette guide:

"Mourning—There is such a variety of opinion upon the subject of mourning, that it is extremely difficult to lay down any general rules upon the subject. Some wear very close black for a long period, for a distant relative; whilst others will wear dressy mourning for a short time in a case of death in the immediate family. There is no rule either for the depth of mourning, or the time when it may be laid aside, and I must confine my remarks to the different degrees of mourning.

"For deep mourning, the dress should be of bombazine, Parramatta cloth, delaine, barege, or merino, made up over black lining. The only appropriate trimming is a deep fold, either of the same material or of crape. The shawl or cloak must be of plain black, without border or trimming, unless a fold of crape be put on the cloak; the bonnet should be of crape, made perfectly plain, with crape facings, unless the widow's cap be worn, and a deep crape veil should be thrown over both face and bonnet. Black crape collar and sleeves, and black boots and gloves. The next degree is to wear white collar and sleeves, a bow of crape upon the bonnet, and plain white lace facings, leaving off the crape veil, and substituting one of plain black net. A little later, black silk without any gloss, trimmed with crape, may be worn, and delaine or bombazine, with a trimming of broad, plain ribbon, or a bias fold of silk. The next stage admits [33] a silk bonnet trimmed with crape, and lead color, dark purple, or white figures on the dress. From this the mourning passes into second mourning. Here a straw bonnet, trimmed with black ribbon or crape flowers, or a silk bonnet with black flowers on the outside, and white ones in the face, a black silk dress, and gray shawl or cloak, may be worn. Lead color, purple, lavender, and white, are all admissible in second mourning, and the dress may be lightened gradually, a white bonnet, shawl, and light purple or lavender dress, being the dress usually worn last, before the mourning is thrown aside entirely, and colors resumed. It is especially to be recommended to buy always the best materials when making up mourning. Crape and woolen goods of the finest quality are very expensive, but a cheaper article will wear miserably; there is no greater error in economy than purchasing cheap mourning, for no goods are so inferior, or wear out and grow rusty so soon."

Thanks Susan.

No wonder Mary bought the best quality items. Love this line "Crape and woolen goods of the finest quality are very expensive, but a cheaper article will wear miserably; there is no greater error in economy than purchasing cheap mourning, for no goods are so inferior, or wear out and grow rusty so soon."

[Donna McCreary]

I have been known to dress in period attire - including mourning. Doing living history events always gave us the opportunity to remain in nineteenth century mode no matter what our surroundings. Wearing the weeping veil was cumbersome. Made of silk, mine hung from the crown of my bonnet to my waist. Since it was difficult to see through the fabric, I had to have a companion with me. I assume Victorian ladies also had to have someone with them to help navigate sidewalks, steps, curbs, so forth. One photographer was particularly determined to get the perfect photo. As he followed us around the corner, the gentleman standing next to me said, "Sir, please, do you not see that her veil is down! Have some respect for privacy." The photographer persisted and took a photo. He must have been extremely disappointment when the end result was a black blob of fabric on the sidewalk.

Anita, thanks for posting the link to the article. It was interesting.

[Anita]

(04-07-2018 10:11 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  I have been known to dress in period attire - including mourning. Doing living history events always gave us the opportunity to remain in nineteenth century mode no matter what our surroundings. Wearing the weeping veil was cumbersome. Made of silk, mine hung from the crown of my bonnet to my waist. Since it was difficult to see through the fabric, I had to have a companion with me. I assume Victorian ladies also had to have someone with them to help navigate sidewalks, steps, curbs, so forth. One photographer was particularly determined to get the perfect photo. As he followed us around the corner, the gentleman standing next to me said, "Sir, please, do you not see that her veil is down! Have some respect for privacy." The photographer persisted and took a photo. He must have been extremely disappointment when the end result was a black blob of fabric on the sidewalk.

Anita, thanks for posting the link to the article. It was interesting.

Hilarious Do you have a website with pictures of you taking part in these living history events?

[Donna McCreary]

(04-08-2018 03:18 PM)Anita Wrote:  

(04-07-2018 10:11 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  I have been known to dress in period attire - including mourning. Doing living history events always gave us the opportunity to remain in nineteenth century mode no matter what our surroundings. Wearing the weeping veil was cumbersome. Made of silk, mine hung from the crown of my bonnet to my waist. Since it was difficult to see through the fabric, I had to have a companion with me. I assume Victorian ladies also had to have someone with them to help navigate sidewalks, steps, curbs, so forth. One photographer was particularly determined to get the perfect photo. As he followed us around the corner, the gentleman standing next to me said, "Sir, please, do you not see that her veil is down! Have some respect for privacy." The photographer persisted and took a photo. He must have been extremely disappointment when the end result was a black blob of fabric on the sidewalk.

Anita, thanks for posting the link to the article. It was interesting.

Hilarious Do you have a website with pictures of you taking part in these living history events?

   

Note the white trim. This is mourning, not widow's attire.