MELUNGEON Ancestry of Abraham Lincoln

[maharba]

While doing some research for another person I came across the term Melungeon, and the claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Melungeon. I went to the net and looked around and the term Melungeon. It appears to refer to darker folks who lived in Kentucky and Appalachia and whose distant ancestry is obscure. There may be thousands of Melungions living today and very proud of their ancestry, though even they can not agree on just where it does trace back to. I wonder if Abraham Lincoln would be a melungeon on that mysterious Hanks line which has never yet really been unraveled?

[L Verge]

This is rather freaky! I had just been online yesterday refreshing my memory on the Melungeons, who are truly spread through quite a few southern states. Much like the Wesorts of Southern Maryland, they have become subjects for public health studies over the past 60 years or so. This is especially true once scientists became intrigued with following DNA, because both Wesorts and Melungeons are derived from three different races -- Caucasian (European), Native American, and Negroid.

Our Wesorts are descended mainly through English lines. I believe, however, that the Caucasians from the Iberian Peninsula form the basis for the Melungeons' line. And, of course, the Native American tribes that inter-married with both varied from one area to another.

The key to understanding the interest in these tri-racial families is the fact that they inter-married within a relatively small inner circle for generations, resulting in genetic anamolies. I was contacted years ago by geneticists in North Carolina relative to the Surratt family. I never received their conclusions, but we did verify that one branch of the Surratt family left Maryland in the mid-1700s and moved into North Carolina and eventually began the westward migration. The scientists told me that some of the Surratts living in North Carolina in the 1980s-90s were Melungeons and carried some of the "abnormal" genes. Their defining trait seems to have been eye problems. The original Surratts who migrated to America came from France near the Spanish border (Pyrenees region), which would put them in the Iberian Peninsula region originally. Would the Hanks line have any origins in Portugal or Spain?

Just as an aside, the name Surratt has many different spellings, but French archivists that we consulted felt that the original was likely Sarratt or Seurratt. Translated, it means serrated (like a knife), probably referring to the jagged mountain tops of the Pyrenees. There are still families bearing derivations of the name in that region.

Now, someone else can do the DNA digging to find out if Abraham Lincoln and John Harrison Surratt, Jr. might be related...

[RJNorton]

(03-24-2016 05:10 PM)maharba Wrote:  While doing some research for another person I came across the term Melungeon, and the claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Melungeon. I went to the net and looked around and the term Melungeon. It appears to refer to darker folks who lived in Kentucky and Appalachia and whose distant ancestry is obscure. There may be thousands of Melungions living today and very proud of their ancestry, though even they can not agree on just where it does trace back to. I wonder if Abraham Lincoln would be a melungeon on that mysterious Hanks line which has never yet really been unraveled?

There used to be a web page that discussed this possibility, but I cannot find the original page. However, I was able to locate it in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. It is here.

[LincolnMan]

Might this line of thinking be responsible for the claim by some that Lincoln was black?

[RJNorton]

(03-25-2016 06:22 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Might this line of thinking be responsible for the claim by some that Lincoln was black?

One person who made this claim was J. A. Rogers. His writing, The Five Negro Presidents, is online here. Rogers also claimed the same for Lincoln's VP, Hannibal Hamlin.

[LincolnMan]

Thank you Roger. I recently was given a DVD to watch from an African-American friend called Hidden Colors. The makers of the DVD program make the claim.

[Wild Bill]

I once wrote on the Rogers book (Ron D. Smith and William L Richter, Fantastic People and Astounding Event from American History Sta. Barbara: ABC Clio, 1993), 173-76, and was curious who the 5th black president was, whom he refused to identify as he was too current and still alive, I believe was the excuse. So I went over the the University of Arizona down the street from here and went to the Black Student Union and asked if anyone had heard of Rogers and if anyone had hear or read who the unknown was. No one had heard of either. Once I also went to the Mormon priesthood organization to ask who exactly were the Lamanites and the Nephites in the Book of Mormon. They did not know, and many were returned missionaries. So much for primary research.

[RJNorton]

(03-25-2016 10:04 AM)Wild Bill Wrote:  and was curious who the 5th black president was, whom he refused to identify as he was too current and still alive, I believe was the excuse.

Bill, my guess would be Eisenhower. There is a page on Snopes here.

Rogers' book came out in 1965, and Eisenhower was still alive at that time.

[Wild Bill]

Wow! I always had a feeling it was Hoover.

[maharba]

(03-24-2016 06:26 PM)L Verge Wrote:  This is rather freaky! I had just been online yesterday refreshing my memory on the Melungeons, who are truly spread through quite a few southern states. Much like the Wesorts of Southern Maryland, they have become subjects for public health studies over the past 60 years or so. This is especially true once scientists became intrigued with following DNA, because both Wesorts and Melungeons are derived from three different races -- Caucasian (European), Native American, and Negroid.

Our Wesorts are descended mainly through English lines. I believe, however, that the Caucasians from the Iberian Peninsula form the basis for the Melungeons' line. And, of course, the Native American tribes that inter-married with both varied from one area to another.

The key to understanding the interest in these tri-racial families is the fact that they inter-married within a relatively small inner circle for generations, resulting in genetic anamolies. I was contacted years ago by geneticists in North Carolina relative to the Surratt family. I never received their conclusions, but we did verify that one branch of the Surratt family left Maryland in the mid-1700s and moved into North Carolina and eventually began the westward migration. The scientists told me that some of the Surratts living in North Carolina in the 1980s-90s were Melungeons and carried some of the "abnormal" genes. Their defining trait seems to have been eye problems. The original Surratts who migrated to America came from France near the Spanish border (Pyrenees region), which would put them in the Iberian Peninsula region originally. Would the Hanks line have any origins in Portugal or Spain?

Just as an aside, the name Surratt has many different spellings, but French archivists that we consulted felt that the original was likely Sarratt or Seurratt. Translated, it means serrated (like a knife), probably referring to the jagged mountain tops of the Pyrenees. There are still families bearing derivations of the name in that region.

Now, someone else can do the DNA digging to find out if Abraham Lincoln and John Harrison Surratt, Jr. might be related...

I had not ever heard of the Wesorts, but they seem a fascinating group too. And I'll have to keep them in mind in genealogy. The Melungeons are still not well understood apparently, by science, history or genealogy. As newer and sharper aspects of DNA and epigenetics come about, some of these mysteries may be unraveled.

The Christians coming to the America's had tried to place "the Indians" into their notions of world history, and many prominent folks thought the Indians were descendants of the 'Lost Tribes of Israel'. I think Cotton Mather and Thomas Jefferson and others had that view in mind. Mormon founder and divine Joseph Smith appears to base his religion on that notion: the Indians were (I believe he said) some son of Joseph who was a son of Jacob (he, Jacob, later name changed to Israel).

The Melungeons are said by some to have early Mediterranean origins,
perhaps northern African or Jewish or close-by Portugal? Some now appear to believe they were an early mixture of escaped (black, American) slaves and various Indian tribes. It's a fascinating subject in genealogy. Let's guess the Melungeons were Moorish from northern Africa, and guess that they may have arrived in the Carolina's as early as 1300 and before Columbus? That's purely a guess, but there is a lot of color and mystery to early American history.

[Steve Whitlock]

(03-24-2016 05:10 PM)maharba Wrote:  While doing some research for another person I came across the term Melungeon, and the claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Melungeon. I went to the net and looked around and the term Melungeon. It appears to refer to darker folks who lived in Kentucky and Appalachia and whose distant ancestry is obscure. There may be thousands of Melungions living today and very proud of their ancestry, though even they can not agree on just where it does trace back to. I wonder if Abraham Lincoln would be a melungeon on that mysterious Hanks line which has never yet really been unraveled?

I've done Melungeon research and that's a topic requiring more than a few paragraphs. However, when you reference the Hanks family and Abraham Lincoln's dna we are looking at the maternal side, which involves more than just the Hanks surname.

As shown with the Nancy Hanks Lincoln mdna study there is a very rare X1c haplogroup involved. There have been a few mtdna matches outside the known line for 2 NC matches, along with Ireland, Norway (yes, Norway) France, Spain and Menorca. We also need to keep in mind that the highest incidence of X1c is among the Druze of the Levant.

In 1767-68 some indentured servants were taken from Menorca and sent to St. Augustine in FL. There was a match from there for the results in the NHL Study that migrated to the Monterey, CA area.

My thoughts for the spreading of the X1c from the Levant may be significant for those other European matches in that Menorca was in a well-traveled shipping path. At different times it was controlled by Spain and England, which would help it to spread to England and Ireland. At one time there were Norwegians in Ireland as well, and then we have the colonization of America. The Moors may also have had an influence. The Druze were comfortable living among Jewish people. Perhaps traveling merchants helped spread the X1c.

There is much, much more available, but I am not a geneticist. Right now we are still struggling to prove whether Mary Thornton was the mother of Ann "Nanny" (Lee) Hanks, or whether William Lee 1704-1764 had a first wife. If Mary Thornton, then who were her parents is still unresolved.

[AussieMick]

I realise that Lee is a very common surname. But it is known to be one of the British Gypsy/Roma surnames. Gypsys are of course considered to be swarthy and dark-skinned.

https://gypsiesroma.blogspot.com/2008/11...-roma.html has this : -

"Some find a Roma or Gypsy connection with the Melungeons.

It is like a missing link, geneologically. How to explain the origins, the broad variation in characteristics, where they came from. This Roma connection is explored by Linda Griggs in "Patrin," a Roma Journal. The article is "The Black Dutch, German Gypsies, or Chicanere, and Their Relation to the Melungeons," by Linda Griggs. See http://www.oocities.org/~patrin/melungeon.htm

With a landing point at the South Carolina coast for many enslaved Roma, see "The Never-Ending Road American Roma (Gypsies), Travellers and "Others," at https://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/ , this makes sense. Start there, many end up in Appalachia.by Henry Burke at two sites --
a. "Origins of the Appalachian-Melungeon Subculture: A More Plausible Explanation for the Origin of Melungeons." See https://web.archive.org/web/201101200647...RB_MEL.HTM and

b. "A Possible End to the Mystery of the Melungeons," https://web.archive.org/web/201306241459...yBurke.htm

[LincolnMan]

(03-25-2016 04:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 05:10 PM)maharba Wrote:  While doing some research for another person I came across the term Melungeon, and the claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Melungeon. I went to the net and looked around and the term Melungeon. It appears to refer to darker folks who lived in Kentucky and Appalachia and whose distant ancestry is obscure. There may be thousands of Melungions living today and very proud of their ancestry, though even they can not agree on just where it does trace back to. I wonder if Abraham Lincoln would be a melungeon on that mysterious Hanks line which has never yet really been unraveled?

There used to be a web page that discussed this possibility, but I cannot find the original page. However, I was able to locate it in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. It is here.

The article is still accessible. I just read it again. It doesn’t come to any conclusion on the subject but is still interesting nonetheless. It does claim that Lincoln was color blind. I don’t remember reading that!

[Steve Whitlock]

(06-16-2019 09:20 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 04:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 05:10 PM)maharba Wrote:  While doing some research for another person I came across the term Melungeon, and the claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Melungeon. I went to the net and looked around and the term Melungeon. It appears to refer to darker folks who lived in Kentucky and Appalachia and whose distant ancestry is obscure. There may be thousands of Melungions living today and very proud of their ancestry, though even they can not agree on just where it does trace back to. I wonder if Abraham Lincoln would be a melungeon on that mysterious Hanks line which has never yet really been unraveled?

There used to be a web page that discussed this possibility, but I cannot find the original page. However, I was able to locate it in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. It is here.

The article is still accessible. I just read it again. It doesn’t come to any conclusion on the subject but is still interesting nonetheless. It does claim that Lincoln was color blind. I don’t remember reading that!

Sooooo, having read the fairy tale that is "A Mountain Girl and her Baby"
By Clarence Edward Noble, I can only say Puh-leeeze! For the Melungeon presentation it was determined that President Lincoln was Jewish because a Berry male was dna tested, and Thomas Lincoln was married in a Berry home where his wife had lived. The Berry family did have an influence for Abraham's aunt, Nancy (Lincoln) Brumfield, whose husband was the son of Joanna (Berry) Brumfield, a daughter of Richard Berry Sr and Rachel Shipley. However, that has nothing to do with the dna of Abraham Lincoln.

"A Mountain Girl and her Baby" also speaks of a Lucy Shipley who had a daughter named Nancy. Perhaps, but again that has nothing to do with Abraham Lincoln, whose mother was Nancy Hanks, a daughter of Lucy Hanks, as proven by my oft repeated mention of an mtdna study for Lucy Hanks, Rachel (Shipley) Berry and Naomi (Shipley) Mitchell, the results available at https://geneticlincoln.com.

If Berry and Shipley is all there is for Abe Lincoln as a Melungeon then there is nothing. According to an obit for Edward G. Berry, son of Richard Berry Jr (the Richard Berry on the marriage bond for Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks), Nancy was a servant in the Berry household. My understanding is that the information came from what Edward told his family.

I tried to attach the Edward G. Berry obit, but it's a .pdf file and the Symposium won't let me attach it.

[Steve]

Steve, try emailing the Berry obituary to Roger and ask him to post it to the forum. That's what I do when I want to post a readable image of a newspaper article to the forum.