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L Verge · 01-25-2016, 11:56 AM

(01-18-2016 03:32 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I "third" Gene and Eva!

Seems logical, Kees. One thing I noticed, though, is the listing for Heard in "Memoirs of a Lincoln Conspirator" edited by Mike Kauffman. Heard is listed in the index, and the sole reference reads "accepts guns from O'Laughlen." The mystery to me is that after the word "Heard" Mike K. writes in parentheses "Hurtt?" Maybe I am misinterpreting, but it comes across to me as Mike thinking Arnold's reference to a "Mr. Heard" might actually be a reference to a "Mr. Hurtt." I must say I do not ever recall seeing a reference to a person named Hurtt in Lincoln assassination literature, so I have no clue to whom Mike might be referring, or why he put "Hurtt?" in parentheses after "Heard."

I finally did some checking on "Mr. Hurtt." My brain has not failed me completely! There were actually two DR. Hurtts who lived in Piscataway, Prince George's County, Maryland (five miles from Surrattsville), which was often frequented by David Herold and the people well-known to him before the war when he and his father hunted with many of them. Thomas Harbin also lived there for awhile.

One of the doctors died in 1863, so that rules him out, but Dr. Edgar Hurtt was very much alive in 1865. I haven't anything to link him to the conspiracy, but I just remember Kauffman and/or Hall and Gaddy floating his name around -- possibly in connection to the Doctors' Line or the Booth plot.

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 01-25-2016 12:31 PM by loetar44.)

(01-25-2016 09:39 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:
(01-25-2016 06:13 AM)loetar44 Wrote: I just saw a sample of “The Lincoln Assassination, the Evidence”, edited by William C. Edwards and Edward Steers Jr., published by the University of Illinois Press, Urbana and Chicago in 2009, ISBN 978-0-252-03368-1. It has on page 550 a “List of prisoners held April 27, 1865”, on pages 551-53 a “List of prisoners committed since April 13, 1865” and on pages 1370-71 a “List of prisoners confined in Old Capitol Prison, June 1, 1865”. Does someone in this forum know what exactly is in these lists? Very curious about that.

http://samples.sainsburysebooks.co.uk/97..._90617.pdf

They're lists of people arrested and confined by orders of the Department of Washington, and lists of those being held in Old Capitol Prison, with their arrest dates and accompanying comments. If there's a specific person(s) you're interested in, I can check for you.

Thanks Susan and sorry I posted in the wrong thread. It was ment for the thread "20 additional prisoners in the Arsenal ??? ". That said, I am highly interested in

1. was Atzerodt indeed transferred April 27, 1865 to the Old Arsenal?
2. when was Burton N. Harrison transferred to the Old Arsenal?
3. when was Hartman Richter transferred to the Old Capitol Prison en when released?
4. were there more prisoners in the Old Arsenal than the one already mentioned?

Thanks

(01-25-2016 11:56 AM)L Verge Wrote:
(01-18-2016 03:32 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I "third" Gene and Eva!

Seems logical, Kees. One thing I noticed, though, is the listing for Heard in "Memoirs of a Lincoln Conspirator" edited by Mike Kauffman. Heard is listed in the index, and the sole reference reads "accepts guns from O'Laughlen." The mystery to me is that after the word "Heard" Mike K. writes in parentheses "Hurtt?" Maybe I am misinterpreting, but it comes across to me as Mike thinking Arnold's reference to a "Mr. Heard" might actually be a reference to a "Mr. Hurtt." I must say I do not ever recall seeing a reference to a person named Hurtt in Lincoln assassination literature, so I have no clue to whom Mike might be referring, or why he put "Hurtt?" in parentheses after "Heard."

I finally did some checking on "Mr. Hurtt." My brain has not failed me completely! There were actually two DR. Hurtts who lived in Piscataway, Prince George's County, Maryland (five miles from Surrattsville), which was often frequented by David Herold and the people well-known to him before the war when he and his father hunted with many of them. Thomas Harbin also lived there for awhile.

One of the doctors died in 1863, so that rules him out, but Dr. Edgar Hurtt was very much alive in 1865. I haven't anything to link him to the conspiracy, but I just remember Kauffman and/or Hall and Gaddy floating his name around -- possibly in connection to the Doctors' Line or the Booth plot.

Good work Laurie !!!

Susan Higginbotham · 01-25-2016, 02:07 PM

(01-25-2016 12:30 PM)loetar44 Wrote:
(01-25-2016 09:39 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:
(01-25-2016 06:13 AM)loetar44 Wrote: I just saw a sample of “The Lincoln Assassination, the Evidence”, edited by William C. Edwards and Edward Steers Jr., published by the University of Illinois Press, Urbana and Chicago in 2009, ISBN 978-0-252-03368-1. It has on page 550 a “List of prisoners held April 27, 1865”, on pages 551-53 a “List of prisoners committed since April 13, 1865” and on pages 1370-71 a “List of prisoners confined in Old Capitol Prison, June 1, 1865”. Does someone in this forum know what exactly is in these lists? Very curious about that.

http://samples.sainsburysebooks.co.uk/97..._90617.pdf

They're lists of people arrested and confined by orders of the Department of Washington, and lists of those being held in Old Capitol Prison, with their arrest dates and accompanying comments. If there's a specific person(s) you're interested in, I can check for you.

Thanks Susan and sorry I posted in the wrong thread. It was ment for the thread "20 additional prisoners in the Arsenal ??? ". That said, I am highly interested in

1. was Atzerodt indeed transferred April 27, 1865 to the Old Arsenal?
2. when was Burton N. Harrison transferred to the Old Arsenal?
3. when was Hartman Richter transferred to the Old Capitol Prison en when released?
4. were there more prisoners in the Old Arsenal than the one already mentioned?

Thanks

(01-25-2016 11:56 AM)L Verge Wrote:
(01-18-2016 03:32 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I "third" Gene and Eva!

Seems logical, Kees. One thing I noticed, though, is the listing for Heard in "Memoirs of a Lincoln Conspirator" edited by Mike Kauffman. Heard is listed in the index, and the sole reference reads "accepts guns from O'Laughlen." The mystery to me is that after the word "Heard" Mike K. writes in parentheses "Hurtt?" Maybe I am misinterpreting, but it comes across to me as Mike thinking Arnold's reference to a "Mr. Heard" might actually be a reference to a "Mr. Hurtt." I must say I do not ever recall seeing a reference to a person named Hurtt in Lincoln assassination literature, so I have no clue to whom Mike might be referring, or why he put "Hurtt?" in parentheses after "Heard."

I finally did some checking on "Mr. Hurtt." My brain has not failed me completely! There were actually two DR. Hurtts who lived in Piscataway, Prince George's County, Maryland (five miles from Surrattsville), which was often frequented by David Herold and the people well-known to him before the war when he and his father hunted with many of them. Thomas Harbin also lived there for awhile.

One of the doctors died in 1863, so that rules him out, but Dr. Edgar Hurtt was very much alive in 1865. I haven't anything to link him to the conspiracy, but I just remember Kauffman and/or Hall and Gaddy floating his name around -- possibly in connection to the Doctors' Line or the Booth plot.

Good work Laurie !!!

Kees, I posted some documents about Richter on the "20 Additional Prisoners Thread" just now. (I hope you can see them now. They weren't showing up a few minutes ago but seem to be OK now.)

According to Hartranft's letter book, Burton Harrison was taken to the Old Arsenal on May 26 and put in cell 165.

loetar44 · 01-25-2016, 03:28 PM

Thank you Susan! You are very helpfull!

HerbS · 01-25-2016, 05:50 PM

There are no stupid questions!

John Fazio · 02-03-2016, 08:28 AM

(01-25-2016 11:56 AM)L Verge Wrote:
(01-18-2016 03:32 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I "third" Gene and Eva!

Seems logical, Kees. One thing I noticed, though, is the listing for Heard in "Memoirs of a Lincoln Conspirator" edited by Mike Kauffman. Heard is listed in the index, and the sole reference reads "accepts guns from O'Laughlen." The mystery to me is that after the word "Heard" Mike K. writes in parentheses "Hurtt?" Maybe I am misinterpreting, but it comes across to me as Mike thinking Arnold's reference to a "Mr. Heard" might actually be a reference to a "Mr. Hurtt." I must say I do not ever recall seeing a reference to a person named Hurtt in Lincoln assassination literature, so I have no clue to whom Mike might be referring, or why he put "Hurtt?" in parentheses after "Heard."

I finally did some checking on "Mr. Hurtt." My brain has not failed me completely! There were actually two DR. Hurtts who lived in Piscataway, Prince George's County, Maryland (five miles from Surrattsville), which was often frequented by David Herold and the people well-known to him before the war when he and his father hunted with many of them. Thomas Harbin also lived there for awhile.

One of the doctors died in 1863, so that rules him out, but Dr. Edgar Hurtt was very much alive in 1865. I haven't anything to link him to the conspiracy, but I just remember Kauffman and/or Hall and Gaddy floating his name around -- possibly in connection to the Doctors' Line or the Booth plot.

Laurie:

Drawing your attention to the post of 1-21, I had said I would try to find the reference as to where the weapons and tools were stored. Well, it popped up in another discussion. On p. 27 of Arnold's Memoirs, he said:

Booth had previously sent a small black box containing 2 carbines, a monkey wrench, ammunition and a piece of rope, by the porter of the National Hotel to our room at Mrs. Van Tyne's. Not wishing it to remain in our room O'Laughlen sent the box to an acquaintence of his in Washington. This box was sent to our room in the early part of March, I think, and was removed in about a week or ten days.

John

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 02-03-2016 08:57 PM by L Verge.)

(02-03-2016 08:28 AM)John Fazio Wrote:
(01-25-2016 11:56 AM)L Verge Wrote:
(01-18-2016 03:32 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I "third" Gene and Eva!

Seems logical, Kees. One thing I noticed, though, is the listing for Heard in "Memoirs of a Lincoln Conspirator" edited by Mike Kauffman. Heard is listed in the index, and the sole reference reads "accepts guns from O'Laughlen." The mystery to me is that after the word "Heard" Mike K. writes in parentheses "Hurtt?" Maybe I am misinterpreting, but it comes across to me as Mike thinking Arnold's reference to a "Mr. Heard" might actually be a reference to a "Mr. Hurtt." I must say I do not ever recall seeing a reference to a person named Hurtt in Lincoln assassination literature, so I have no clue to whom Mike might be referring, or why he put "Hurtt?" in parentheses after "Heard."

I finally did some checking on "Mr. Hurtt." My brain has not failed me completely! There were actually two DR. Hurtts who lived in Piscataway, Prince George's County, Maryland (five miles from Surrattsville), which was often frequented by David Herold and the people well-known to him before the war when he and his father hunted with many of them. Thomas Harbin also lived there for awhile.

One of the doctors died in 1863, so that rules him out, but Dr. Edgar Hurtt was very much alive in 1865. I haven't anything to link him to the conspiracy, but I just remember Kauffman and/or Hall and Gaddy floating his name around -- possibly in connection to the Doctors' Line or the Booth plot.

Laurie:

Drawing your attention to the post of 1-21, I had said I would try to find the reference as to where the weapons and tools were stored. Well, it popped up in another discussion. On p. 27 of Arnold's Memoirs, he said:

Booth had previously sent a small black box containing 2 carbines, a monkey wrench, ammunition and a piece of rope, by the porter of the National Hotel to our room at Mrs. Van Tyne's. Not wishing it to remain in our room O'Laughlen sent the box to an acquaintence of his in Washington. This box was sent to our room in the early part of March, I think, and was removed in about a week or ten days.

John

Thanks, John. I saw that also. Something else mentioned Van Tyne living on D Street. If that was in the downtown area, it would have been close to Ford's, which is on Tenth between E and F. There were published lists of bordellos in D.C. - wonder if there are existing lists for boardinghouses?

loetar44 · 02-04-2016, 04:00 PM

We have at least “one trunk more”.

On March 14, 1865 Booth asked John Matthews to deliver a trunk containing “delicacies” to a friend in Baltimore. This trunk was later sent to southern Maryland. George S. Bryan in “The Great American Myth, The True Story of Lincoln’s Murder” (1940) writes: “Some days before the play ["Still Waters"] was given, Matthews took with him to Baltimore, at Booth's request, a trunk to be delivered to "a gentleman." This trunk was filled, according to Matthews, with provisions, toilet articles, and various comforts for Lincoln on the journey to the Confederate lines.”

Speaking about Matthews there are conflicting stories about his whereabouts after Booth shot Lincoln. Where did he burn the letter Booth gave him earlier that day?

Tom Bogar writes in his “Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination” that Mathews was picked up on Friday April 21, and that his L STREET BOARDINGHOUSE room was searched, but nothing was discovered to tie him to the crime.” This is the ONLY reference to L-Street.

George Bryan writes in “The Great American Myth”: “Matthews, who seems to have been thoroughly terrified by what had happened, went straight to his room in the PETERSEN HOUSE and locked the door. He expected that Ford's would be burned. When he removed his coat, the letter Booth had handed him dropped to the floor. He opened and read it.

Kathryn Canavan writes in “Lincoln’s Final Hours”: “Mathews lived upstairs at PETERSEN’S BOARDINGHOUSE, the house directly across the street from Ford’s Theatre where President Lincoln was taken after he was shot. A few weeks before, Mathews rented the downstairs room where President Lincoln died. Booth sometimes visited him there, stretching out on the bed, laughing and telling stories, his pipe hooked in his mouth.” This is correct but she also writes: “Mathews and other Ford’s actors made for the exits to avoid police. Mathews retreated to his boardinghouse across the street , the same house where the president lay dying [= PETERSON HOUSE]. He walked past the armed guards and climbed straight upstairs to his room totally unaware that Booth’s letter was about to fall out of his overcoat pocket”.

And what about this? Is it true (as Katryn Canavan writes) that John Mathews almost got himself hanged twice on assassination night? Two crowds tried to hang him later that night solely because he knew Booth. He escaped the first. The second time, the rope was already looped around his neck when some soldiers rescued him. Never heard that story.

Tom Bogar · 02-04-2016, 05:15 PM

(02-04-2016 04:00 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Speaking about Matthews there are conflicting stories about his whereabouts after Booth shot Lincoln. Where did he burn the letter Booth gave him earlier that day?

Tom Bogar writes in his “Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination” that Mathews was picked up on Friday April 21, and that his L STREET BOARDINGHOUSE room was searched, but nothing was discovered to tie him to the crime.” This is the ONLY reference to L-Street.

George Bryan writes in “The Great American Myth”: “Matthews, who seems to have been thoroughly terrified by what had happened, went straight to his room in the PETERSEN HOUSE and locked the door. He expected that Ford's would be burned. When he removed his coat, the letter Booth had handed him dropped to the floor. He opened and read it.

Kathryn Canavan writes in “Lincoln’s Final Hours”: “Mathews lived upstairs at PETERSEN’S BOARDINGHOUSE, the house directly across the street from Ford’s Theatre where President Lincoln was taken after he was shot. A few weeks before, Mathews rented the downstairs room where President Lincoln died. Booth sometimes visited him there, stretching out on the bed, laughing and telling stories, his pipe hooked in his mouth.” This is correct but she also writes: “Mathews and other Ford’s actors made for the exits to avoid police. Mathews retreated to his boardinghouse across the street , the same house where the president lay dying [= PETERSON HOUSE]. He walked past the armed guards and climbed straight upstairs to his room totally unaware that Booth’s letter was about to fall out of his overcoat pocket”.

And what about this? Is it true (as Katryn Canavan writes) that John Mathews almost got himself hanged twice on assassination night? Two crowds tried to hang him later that night solely because he knew Booth. He escaped the first. The second time, the rope was already looped around his neck when some soldiers rescued him. Never heard that story.

Hope I can help clarify things a little. Let me address the boardinghouse issue first: Mathews did occasionally rent the first floor rear room at Petersen's, as recently as March 1865, but at the time of the assassination he had switched (I do not know why) and was boarding at 233 L. St. NW. He mentions at one point in being questioned the name of his landlady (I'd have to dig through too many boxes to get her name), and this was her address, plus John (misspelled) Matthews is listed in the 1865 Washington DC directory (published May 1865--perhaps a carryover from the old May 1 Moving Day in NY) thusly: "boards 233 L St. north." He describes (as part of the Johnson impeachment hearings) getting out of the theatre undetected (by soldiers in the theatre, not necessarily at Petersen's) and rushing to his room, reading the letter through several times (convincing me, at least, that with his actor's memory he could have recited parts of it, jumbled somewhat with the famous "To Whom it May Concern" letter), and then tearing it up and burning the pieces in the grate of his room; also, (if I recall correctly) there is no fireplace in the room in which Lincoln died.

I only know of one near-hanging incident, which occurred early on the morning of April 15. I describe it on p. 132 of BATLA. Mathews went looking for Harry Hawk, found him in a saloon, and began questioning him about Booth. An angry crowd tried to string him up from a lamppost, but soldiers intervened. My source for that is its narration in the New York Dramatic Mirror Jan. 21, 1905, one of his lengthier obits. I do not know of a second incident.

loetar44 · 02-05-2016, 05:43 AM

(02-04-2016 05:15 PM)Tom Bogar Wrote:
(02-04-2016 04:00 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Speaking about Matthews there are conflicting stories about his whereabouts after Booth shot Lincoln. Where did he burn the letter Booth gave him earlier that day?

Tom Bogar writes in his “Backstage at the Lincoln Assassination” that Mathews was picked up on Friday April 21, and that his L STREET BOARDINGHOUSE room was searched, but nothing was discovered to tie him to the crime.” This is the ONLY reference to L-Street.

George Bryan writes in “The Great American Myth”: “Matthews, who seems to have been thoroughly terrified by what had happened, went straight to his room in the PETERSEN HOUSE and locked the door. He expected that Ford's would be burned. When he removed his coat, the letter Booth had handed him dropped to the floor. He opened and read it.

Kathryn Canavan writes in “Lincoln’s Final Hours”: “Mathews lived upstairs at PETERSEN’S BOARDINGHOUSE, the house directly across the street from Ford’s Theatre where President Lincoln was taken after he was shot. A few weeks before, Mathews rented the downstairs room where President Lincoln died. Booth sometimes visited him there, stretching out on the bed, laughing and telling stories, his pipe hooked in his mouth.” This is correct but she also writes: “Mathews and other Ford’s actors made for the exits to avoid police. Mathews retreated to his boardinghouse across the street , the same house where the president lay dying [= PETERSON HOUSE]. He walked past the armed guards and climbed straight upstairs to his room totally unaware that Booth’s letter was about to fall out of his overcoat pocket”.

And what about this? Is it true (as Katryn Canavan writes) that John Mathews almost got himself hanged twice on assassination night? Two crowds tried to hang him later that night solely because he knew Booth. He escaped the first. The second time, the rope was already looped around his neck when some soldiers rescued him. Never heard that story.

Hope I can help clarify things a little. Let me address the boardinghouse issue first: Mathews did occasionally rent the first floor rear room at Petersen's, as recently as March 1865, but at the time of the assassination he had switched (I do not know why) and was boarding at 233 L. St. NW. He mentions at one point in being questioned the name of his landlady (I'd have to dig through too many boxes to get her name), and this was her address, plus John (misspelled) Matthews is listed in the 1865 Washington DC directory (published May 1865--perhaps a carryover from the old May 1 Moving Day in NY) thusly: "boards 233 L St. north." He describes (as part of the Johnson impeachment hearings) getting out of the theatre undetected (by soldiers in the theatre, not necessarily at Petersen's) and rushing to his room, reading the letter through several times (convincing me, at least, that with his actor's memory he could have recited parts of it, jumbled somewhat with the famous "To Whom it May Concern" letter), and then tearing it up and burning the pieces in the grate of his room; also, (if I recall correctly) there is no fireplace in the room in which Lincoln died.

I only know of one near-hanging incident, which occurred early on the morning of April 15. I describe it on p. 132 of BATLA. Mathews went looking for Harry Hawk, found him in a saloon, and began questioning him about Booth. An angry crowd tried to string him up from a lamppost, but soldiers intervened. My source for that is its narration in the New York Dramatic Mirror Jan. 21, 1905, one of his lengthier obits. I do not know of a second incident.

Mr. Bogar (Tom), that's a nice and convincing answer. Thank you so much. Would be nice if you are able (and willing) to dig up the name of Mathews landlady.