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Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
10-13-2015, 10:00 AM
Post: #16
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Unfortunately, I would have to say that the voters were probably voting more against McClellan than they were in support of emancipation.
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10-13-2015, 10:20 AM
Post: #17
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Plus, it is my understanding the Democrat platform was for an immediate end to military action and for a negotiated end to the war. Between the time of the Democrat convention and election day, the North was clearly winning the war. McClellan did not agree regarding the Democrat party platform.

This will probably tell you more than you want to know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_1864

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
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10-13-2015, 10:30 AM
Post: #18
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
I think Lincoln and others did move the needle on emancipation, though - while many people in the North may not have been on board with equal rights for blacks, I think there was greater support for emancipation in 1864 (and remember, there were celebrations when Congress sent to the states the Thirteenth Amendment, quick ratification in many states, etc.). I think it's like today's elections - people vote within two great umbrella parties but voters individually prioritize different things. So, it's hard to say who was voting because of reunion, emancipation, reunion and emancipation, etc. Also, one thing that always struck me was how close the popular vote was - while I recognize Lincoln won by around 10 points, it just always strikes me how the Democratic party held on to a more than solid base, even in 1864.

(10-13-2015 10:00 AM)Rogerm Wrote:  Unfortunately, I would have to say that the voters were probably voting more against McClellan than they were in support of emancipation.
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10-13-2015, 11:21 AM
Post: #19
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
I believe there were two other factors that influenced the vote to swing in Lincoln's favor -- Sherman's taking of Atlanta just two months before the election and the fact that John C. Fremont dropped out of the race and saved the Republicans from splitting their vote.
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10-13-2015, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 10-13-2015 02:08 PM by STS Lincolnite.)
Post: #20
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Regarding the 1864 election.

I would recommend the following book: Emancipation, the Union Army, and the Re-election of Abraham Lincoln by Jonathan W. White. I have read Jon's book and heard him speak a couple of times. He gave a great talk last year at the Lincoln Forum Symposium. It deals with the soldiery and not civilians, but gives a lot of good insight that I think in some cases could be generalized to the US population.

Many of the points brought up in here are addressed in the book. He sort of shoots down the idea espoused by some that the soldiers were all voting for Lincoln because they suddenly saw the evils of slavery. I always found that idea a little too tidy myself.

Rogerm stated he felt that many or most were voting against McClellan. I think that is certainly a factor especially when thinking of it as the McClellan ticket. McClellan's running mate was George Pendleton. Pendleton was roundly considered a copperhead cut from the same cloth as Clement Vallandingham. Many soldiers absolutely refused to vote for McClellan because of Pendleton. Some therefore voted for Lincoln and some just didn't vote at all.

I also agree with Christian that although there were more people by 1864 that had come to accept emancipation, there were many that did not. Many because they feared freed blacks would move north and compete for jobs and many others because they felt that emancipation would lead to equal rights and they did not want that. Much depended on how people's individual priorities played out.

Personally, I think all are true but that the key factor that tipped the scales in the 1864 election - for the soldier and civilian vote - was Sherman's taking of Atlanta (as Laurie alluded to). Considering all the above and many other things, I think many people were still on the fence as to how to vote up until that time. The victory gave the voters an ability to feel comfortable with a vote for the Republican party as it now was clear that the end of the war was really only a matter of time and that the Union would be victorious. Many voters felt that a vote for the Democratic candidate would lead to an end to the war but with the Union split (as Gene alluded to) - they were not comfortable wth that. The soldiers and others wanted to win on the battlefield (a true military victory; not what they might have felt a "hollow" end to the war) and preserve the Union in order to "justify" the sacrifice of all the people that died to achieve that goal.

Reflecting a little further, and circling back to the focus of the thread, I think that the 1864 election was a critical factor in the passage of the 13th amendment. Lincoln's re-election gave him the political clout to maneuver and push it through. As a lame duck, I highly doubt he would have been able to do so. And McClellan and party certainly wouldn't have supported such an amendment.
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10-13-2015, 01:53 PM
Post: #21
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Thank you for all these great replies!!!
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10-13-2015, 04:41 PM
Post: #22
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Definitely agree that the 1864 election was pivotal in passage of the amendment and it certainly wouldn't have happened had the election turned out differently. And whether or not the election was a referendum on the amendment, Lincoln and others certainly used it that way.
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11-02-2015, 12:12 PM
Post: #23
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
I was listening to a recent episode of Civil War Talk Radio (hosted by Gerry Prokopowicz) and it was announced that Christian Samito is the scheduled guest for the Wednesday 11/4/2015 episode!

The interview will be in regards to Christian’s book Lincoln and the 13th Amendment (and the subject of this thread). For those interested, you can listen live on the evening of November 4th via the internet or stream a recording of the show any time after. Shows are available to stream on the Voice America website usually starting the next day. They can be downloaded from iTunes starting a week or two following the initial airdate. I am including the web address to the Voice America website.

http://www.voiceamerica.com/show/2205/ci...talk-radio
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11-02-2015, 12:52 PM
Post: #24
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Over the years, I see oddities about some of these later Amendments. Particularly the 13th Amendment, and maybe 14th. That there were one or more posited, and at least one which actually became law, but which is never talked about anymore. And it really shouldn't be that controversial. It either is historical fact or it is not. Here is some of the text which anyone can find now online,

If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain
any title of nobility or honor, or shall, without the consent of congress,
accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind
whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall
cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding
any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.
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11-02-2015, 02:09 PM
Post: #25
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Thanks! I'm excited to make this appearance!

(11-02-2015 12:12 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  I was listening to a recent episode of Civil War Talk Radio (hosted by Gerry Prokopowicz) and it was announced that Christian Samito is the scheduled guest for the Wednesday 11/4/2015 episode!

The interview will be in regards to Christian’s book Lincoln and the 13th Amendment (and the subject of this thread). For those interested, you can listen live on the evening of November 4th via the internet or stream a recording of the show any time after. Shows are available to stream on the Voice America website usually starting the next day. They can be downloaded from iTunes starting a week or two following the initial airdate. I am including the web address to the Voice America website.

http://www.voiceamerica.com/show/2205/ci...talk-radio
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11-06-2015, 11:39 AM
Post: #26
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
I really enjoyed doing this interview! For anyone interested, here's a link to the episode:

http://cdn.voiceamerica.com/voice/201034...110415.mp3

(11-02-2015 12:12 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  I was listening to a recent episode of Civil War Talk Radio (hosted by Gerry Prokopowicz) and it was announced that Christian Samito is the scheduled guest for the Wednesday 11/4/2015 episode!

The interview will be in regards to Christian’s book Lincoln and the 13th Amendment (and the subject of this thread). For those interested, you can listen live on the evening of November 4th via the internet or stream a recording of the show any time after. Shows are available to stream on the Voice America website usually starting the next day. They can be downloaded from iTunes starting a week or two following the initial airdate. I am including the web address to the Voice America website.

http://www.voiceamerica.com/show/2205/ci...talk-radio
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12-01-2015, 04:29 PM
Post: #27
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
In honor of the 150th anniversary of the Thirteenth Amendment's ratification in December 1865, my press has posted the introduction to my book, Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment, online here: http://press.siu.edu/blog/?p=608 - for those of you who read it, I hope you enjoy it!
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12-01-2015, 06:31 PM
Post: #28
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Thank you so much for sharing this appetizer!!!
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12-02-2015, 11:39 AM
Post: #29
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
(12-01-2015 06:31 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thank you so much for sharing this appetizer!!!

My pleasure!
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02-01-2016, 12:55 PM
Post: #30
RE: Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment
Today is National Freedom Day, commemorating the anniversary of Lincoln's signing of the Thirteenth Amendment resolution (constitutionally he did not need to do so). This program at Lincoln's Cottage, aired on C-SPAN last Sunday, features me talking about Lincoln and the Thirteenth Amendment (the subject of my new book) as well as great speeches by Edna Greene Medford and George Rutherglen about other aspects of the amendment. Hope you enjoy it (and visit Lincoln's Cottage if you can)!

http://www.c-span.org/video/?401809-1/13...ndment-150
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