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08-03-2015, 09:18 AM

Attempts were made in January and March.
Why in winter?

(Please forgive larger font - bad eyes)

Jim Garrett · 08-03-2015, 09:44 AM

My best guess would be that they were running out of time. nThe Confederacy was collapsing and with the inevitable spring offensive by Grant ahead, they had to move while they still could.

Wild Bill · 08-03-2015, 10:25 AM

Rosieo,

I am turning you over to John Fazio--no thanks necessary.

John Fazio · 08-03-2015, 11:49 AM

(08-03-2015 09:18 AM)Rosieo Wrote:
Attempts were made in January and March.
Why in winter?

(Please forgive larger font - bad eyes)

Rosieo:

My view is that Booth never really intended to kidnap anyone. I give 26 reasons in my book (pp. 129-137) for so believing. Here's one of them:
Samuel Arnold complained of "most favorable opportunities" (to kidnap) which were missed. Told of the opportunities by Arnold, Booth paid little attention to them, because, he said, he was too busy at the time. In the meantime, said Arnold, Booth continued "riotous living and dissipation," which compelled him to visit New York for more money.

Here's another reason, found on p. 130:

Arnold said, in his confession: "Of course I know nothing of the assassination plot. The kidnapping was of such a quixotic nature that there is nothing in it, and with the last no overt act was committed, therefore, no proceedings could be established under the law."

The January "attempt" (the Jack Cade affair) has so many uncertainties about it that Hanchett says: "Whatever Booth and his friends were up to in January, there is no real evidence that they planned seriously to capture Lincoln inside the theater."

The March "attempt" (the Campbell Hospital affair) is described by Kauffman in these words: "...in all likelihood, he (Booth) staged the event to make it work for him. He really had no reason to think that Lincoln was planning to go to Campbell Hospital". And Arnold said that "...the episode was so demented and foolhardy that we 'we concluded that it was done to try the nerve of his (Booth's) associates'."

John

Rick Smith · 08-03-2015, 08:33 PM

While doing some research for the revision of Bill Richter's "Last Confederate Heroes" several years ago, he directed me to the Special Papers Collection of the Lauinger Library at Georgetown University, the alma mater of my brothers and also of Thomas Harbin's brother, I had the privilege of viewing some of the writings of David Rankin Barbee, whose research into the Lincoln Assassination, I believe, began in the 1930's. Here are the notes I took regarding what he had this to say about what he entitled, "The Southern Maryland Planters Hand Down a Plot."

Patrick C. Martin visits with Southern Maryland Planters during the Spring of 1864. At the head of the group is Dr. William Queen. The group wants to kidnap Lincoln, end the war, and restore slavery in the old way. The group is organized, but lacks a leader. Enter John Wilkes Booth. Martin believes that Booth is the right person to take the lead. Martin had met with Booth in Montreal earlier and feels that the planters can entrust their plan to him. {At this point, Barbee says that Martin’s plan has a flaw; he does not know that Booth is insane. Not so.} Martin confides his plans to George P. Kane, Dr. Queen, Thomas Harbin, and “others”. Booth had come to Montreal to talk over the plan and Martin probably met him at Joe Davis’ Billiards Saloon. During the course of their meeting, Martin tells Booth to put himself into the hands of Dr. William Queen and that he will not go wrong. Martin tells Booth that he should proceed to Bryantown, where he will meet Henry Burch, and his son, Dominic, both trusted Confederates. Dominic will acquaint Booth with the area and see that he gets to Dr. Queen. Letters are to be written, introducing Booth as a land buyer, and also to serve as cover for Booth. He will assume the role of a rich young man from Baltimore who has come to the region with hopes of purchasing land. Booth must buy a horse or two and inspect some farms that are for sale. Dominic Burch meets Booth as soon as he gets off the stage in front of the Bryantown Tavern. Dr. Queen’s son, Joseph, arrives a bit later, and then drives Booth to Queen’s plantation. Dr. Queen’s son-in-law, John C. Thompson, will handle the weapons cache. A meeting takes place at Dr. Queen’s home with several planters in attendance. At the meeting were; George Gardiner, Thomas L. Gardiner {George’s nephew}, Joseph Queen, John C. Thompson, Dr. Queen, Booth and a number of “others.”

It is my very strong belief that there was a plot to kidnap Mr. Lincoln.

Thomas Thorne · 08-03-2015, 10:47 PM

I think the weight factor would have made it much easier to transport a kidnapped Lincoln by horseback or carriage in winter and early spring road conditions which might have been impossible for artillery and heavily laden supply wagons to move effectively to permit military movements.

Tom

John Fazio · 08-04-2015, 02:05 AM

(08-03-2015 08:33 PM)Rick Smith Wrote: While doing some research for the revision of Bill Richter's "Last Confederate Heroes" several years ago, he directed me to the Special Papers Collection of the Lauinger Library at Georgetown University, the alma mater of my brothers and also of Thomas Harbin's brother, I had the privilege of viewing some of the writings of David Rankin Barbee, whose research into the Lincoln Assassination, I believe, began in the 1930's. Here are the notes I took regarding what he had this to say about what he entitled, "The Southern Maryland Planters Hand Down a Plot."

Patrick C. Martin visits with Southern Maryland Planters during the Spring of 1864. At the head of the group is Dr. William Queen. The group wants to kidnap Lincoln, end the war, and restore slavery in the old way. The group is organized, but lacks a leader. Enter John Wilkes Booth. Martin believes that Booth is the right person to take the lead. Martin had met with Booth in Montreal earlier and feels that the planters can entrust their plan to him. {At this point, Barbee says that Martin’s plan has a flaw; he does not know that Booth is insane. Not so.} Martin confides his plans to George P. Kane, Dr. Queen, Thomas Harbin, and “others”. Booth had come to Montreal to talk over the plan and Martin probably met him at Joe Davis’ Billiards Saloon. During the course of their meeting, Martin tells Booth to put himself into the hands of Dr. William Queen and that he will not go wrong. Martin tells Booth that he should proceed to Bryantown, where he will meet Henry Burch, and his son, Dominic, both trusted Confederates. Dominic will acquaint Booth with the area and see that he gets to Dr. Queen. Letters are to be written, introducing Booth as a land buyer, and also to serve as cover for Booth. He will assume the role of a rich young man from Baltimore who has come to the region with hopes of purchasing land. Booth must buy a horse or two and inspect some farms that are for sale. Dominic Burch meets Booth as soon as he gets off the stage in front of the Bryantown Tavern. Dr. Queen’s son, Joseph, arrives a bit later, and then drives Booth to Queen’s plantation. Dr. Queen’s son-in-law, John C. Thompson, will handle the weapons cache. A meeting takes place at Dr. Queen’s home with several planters in attendance. At the meeting were; George Gardiner, Thomas L. Gardiner {George’s nephew}, Joseph Queen, John C. Thompson, Dr. Queen, Booth and a number of “others.”

It is my very strong belief that there was a plot to kidnap Mr. Lincoln.

Rick:

Thanks for your input.

In my view, even if the meeting you describe occurred, the plot could not have been conceived or carried out without Davis's and Benjamin's knowledge and it therefore does not stand the tests of reason and human nature. It is not in our nature to capitulate to the demands of hostage takers. ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.") What would Confederate leaders have done with Lincoln if faced with Northern stonewalling, which they surely would have been confronted with even if Booth or anyone else managed the all-but-impossible feat of capturing him and transporting him across the bridge to Richmond? Davis later said that only one bona fide kidnapping plan had ever been brought to him and that he rejected it because there was nothing to be gained by kidnapping Lincoln (the Walker Taylor plot).

The 26 reasons I give in my book for rejecting the kidnapping theory are affirmed by the opinions of Thomas M. Harris, a member of the military commission ("Booth's so-called kidnapping plan had in fact never existed"), John A. Bingham, a special judge advocate ("...as early as November (1864), the proposition with (Booth) was to kill and murder--not to kidnap") and Louis Weichmann ("It would probably be nearer the truth to say that murder was in his heart all the time and that he was merely watching his opportunity to do the deed and--escape."). If you are unconvinced, read Atzerodt's May 1 confession and the testimony of Mrs. McClermont at the trial of John Surratt and then ask yourself if they sound like Booth had kidnapping in mind.

John

Wild Bill · 08-04-2015, 06:18 AM

John:

Your "even if" and 26 reasons do not address the problem that Barbee presents in his massive manuscript "Lincoln and Booth." You ever read it? It is not in your biblio for your book. How about the letter to Dominic Burch in Rhodehammel and Taper's Papers of JW? Both knew him and a meeting took place.

You seem to have trouble with what the Rebs would do with Lincoln if the North refused to deal with them to "ransom" Lincoln. Very simple. They would have put him up for trial for starting the War and engaging in war crimes against Confederate civilians and hanged him like any common criminal, which they thought him to be.

I also think Thomas Thorne hit the reason that the kidnapping was conceived as a cold weather plan, mud and roads.

Gene C · 08-04-2015, 07:36 AM

(08-04-2015 06:18 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: John:

You seem to have trouble with what the Rebs would do with Lincoln if the North refused to deal with them to "ransom" Lincoln. Very simple. They would have put him up for trial for starting the War and engaging in war crimes against Confederate civilians and hanged him like any common criminal, which they thought him to be.

I tend to disagree with you, but more because of the political damage this would cause the south. IMO the Rebels would have a hard time with what to do with Lincoln. This would certainly destroy any hope they had towards foreign intervention. This trial and execution might be what Davis and Benjamin would prefer, but at this point in the war, they were not popular at all in the south and didn't have the political strength they had early in the war. They might not get their way. Lincoln might possibly be left in prison somewhat the way Davis was after the war.

But on the other hand, "desperate people take desperate measures" and "a drowning man will clutch at a straw"

Interesting to speculate about.

Jim Woodall · 08-04-2015, 07:42 AM

I tend to go along with the thinking of Wild Bill. Kidnapping gives leverage points where as killing would more likely incite the North to anger and vengeance (oh geez, isn't that what happened). Even if one still had murder in the heart and accepted that the North had won, a live Lincoln would be a better prize to barter for better terms in a full surrender from the field. Alas, if the escape with a kidnapped President proved to troublesome, one could still just murder him along the way.

I do think that on that day, the plan was murder. They would have needed the wagon Booth had procured and gotten rid of to stand a chance of getting Lincoln out of the city or pass sentries. So, when did Booth get rid of the wagon? Is it not then when the decisions/options had to change to murder?

Jim Garrett · 08-04-2015, 08:03 AM

Back to the timing.....Correct that armies waited until spring for many reasons. Winter is a terrible time to mount an offensive. Napoleon and Gen. Ambrose Burnside both found that out. Thousand of troops and the wagons and other wheeled vehicles to support them would turn the roadways with even the slightest moisture into mires. However a single wagon/buggy with a few outriders is a much different story. They could probably outpace any large pursuit with no problem.

RJNorton · 08-04-2015, 08:51 AM

(08-04-2015 07:42 AM)Jim Woodall Wrote: So, when did Booth get rid of the wagon?

Was this the buggy Spangler referred to in the statement found in his tool chest at Mudd's? Or did Booth have another? Spangler wrote:

"On the Monday evening previous to the assassination, Booth requested me to sell the horse, harness, and buggy, as he said he should leave the city soon. I took them the next morning to the horse market, and had them put up at auction, with the instruction not to sell unless they would net two hundred and sixty dollars; this was in accordance with Booth's orders to me. As no person bid sufficient to make them net that amount, they were not sold, and I took them back to the stable. I informed Booth of the result that same evening in front of the theater. He replied that he must then try and have them sold at private sale, and asked me if I would help him. I replied, "Yes." This was about six o'clock in the evening, and the conversation took place in the presence of John F. Sleichman and others. The next day I sold them for two hundred and sixty dollars. The purchaser accompanied me to the theater. Booth was not in, and the money was paid to James J. Gifford, who receipted for it. I did not see Booth to speak to him, after the sale, until the evening of the assassination."

John Fazio · 08-04-2015, 09:34 AM

Wild Bill, et al:

Some good points are made by all, but IMO Gene is closer to the truth than anyone else. Yes, I have a problem with what they would have done with Lincoln. So did Davis, when he said to Maj. Joseph Walker Taylor: "I cannot give my authority, Walker...what value would he be to us as a prisoner?...If he were brought to Richmond, what could I do with him? He would have to be treated like the Magistrate of the North, and we have neither the time nor the provision." Conrad also had a problem with it. He said that "even a child" would know that a kidnapped Lincoln could do the Confederacy no good at all. Furthermore, for what reason would they have held him hostage? Grant had resumed prisoner exchange in January and was exchanging about 3,000 a week. Booth's refusal to take account of that fact, when Arnold made it clear to him, was reason enough for Arnold to say that Booth was a maniac. Actually, it revealed a deeper truth, namely that Booth had no intention of kidnapping anyone, which is why he would persist in his scheming even though the alleged rationale for it had disappeared.

No, I have not read Barbee's manuscript, but I will be happy to. Please let me know where I may obtain the same.

John

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015 10:12 AM by L Verge.)

(08-04-2015 08:03 AM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Back to the timing.....Correct that armies waited until spring for many reasons. Winter is a terrible time to mount an offensive. Napoleon and Gen. Ambrose Burnside both found that out. Thousand of troops and the wagons and other wheeled vehicles to support them would turn the roadways with even the slightest moisture into mires. However a single wagon/buggy with a few outriders is a much different story. They could probably outpace any large pursuit with no problem.

I agree, Jim. I also believe the fact that armies seriously curtailed activities and "rested" during the winter months would make it easier to carry out the plan. It would take longer to marshal the forces to respond and begin pursuit???

(08-04-2015 09:34 AM)John Fazio Wrote: Wild Bill, et al:

Some good points are made by all, but IMO Gene is closer to the truth than anyone else. Yes, I have a problem with what they would have done with Lincoln. So did Davis, when he said to Maj. Joseph Walker Taylor: "I cannot give my authority, Walker...what value would he be to us as a prisoner?...If he were brought to Richmond, what could I do with him? He would have to be treated like the Magistrate of the North, and we have neither the time nor the provision." Conrad also had a problem with it. He said that "even a child" would know that a kidnapped Lincoln could do the Confederacy no good at all. Furthermore, for what reason would they have held him hostage? Grant had resumed prisoner exchange in January and was exchanging about 3,000 a week. Booth's refusal to take account of that fact, when Arnold made it clear to him, was reason enough for Arnold to say that Booth was a maniac. Actually, it revealed a deeper truth, namely that Booth had no intention of kidnapping anyone, which is why he would persist in his scheming even though the alleged rationale for it had disappeared.

No, I have not read Barbee's manuscript, but I will be happy to. Please let me know where I may obtain the same.

John

John - You have just answered a question that I have had for a long time: Did Grant speed up the prisoner exchange once it was open again? I do not know the combined total of Confederate POWS. Approximately how long would it have taken at the rate of 3000/week to close down the camps? Did the North intend to fully close every camp with the war still on? Or, just reduce the amount that had to be fed?

Barbee's manuscript is in Georgetown University's Lauinger Library. While Mr. Hall did not agree with many of his points, he was quite impressed with that mss. and tried unsuccessfully to convince Barbee's daughter to publish it posthumously. No dice. I also mentioned it to Nicholas Sheetz, former librarian there, about 20 years ago. I got the answer I was expecting, "lack of funds."

Rick Smith · 08-04-2015, 11:09 AM

It is a shame that Barbee's papers have not been published. Those which I read while at the Lauinger Library contained some fascinating material. There are many boxes of typed manuscripts enclosed in black binders. Barbee mentions so many people by name and cites their association with the Lincoln assassination. It gives an indication of the numbers of people working on the periphery who are never heard of. The only other place I have heard many of these names is in Bill Richter's, The Last Confederate Heroes. Barbee's papers are an important collection and should be published. Wonder what the cost would be?