The Queen's English

[Eva Elisabeth]

I don't have the answer, but I hope someone will: Where does "score=20" (Gettysburg Address) come from? Is it still used today?

[HerbS]

I honestly don't know the answer!

[L Verge]

I have a vague recollection of learning that a score meant twenty somewhere during elementary school, but I can't say I have ever heard it used except in the Gettysburg Address.

Another term that is seldom used today (at least to my knowledge) is "parlor." I know that RogerM can tell us that the word is derived from the French for "to talk." Somewhere in the early-1900s, it seems to have been changed to "living room." I'm not even sure we call it that any more. In the 1970s, the parlor/living room seemed to be the pretty room that no one went into unless you had special company. We inherited a "rec room" instead, and that now seems to be the "family room."

[Eva Elisabeth]

The latest use that comes to my mind dates back to 1968:
"The queen was in the parlour
Playing piano for the children of the king."
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OqNpFc6RDzU
Unknown to me before I joined the forum was the "den". Is that a short form? Where does this come from and when did it so?

I found this on "score":
The use of score (20) in reckoning still remains in poetical and Biblical language from the old Celtic system of counting as still to be seen in French, e.g. quatre-vingt-dix-sept= (4 x 20) + 10 + 7 = ninety-seven.
The word score originally meant to cut (cf. Scandinavian sker and English shear). A mark was cut on a piece of wood, or two pieces of wood placed together if it was a matter of a business deal, to keep the tally (which also comes from a word meaning to cut cf. Spanish talar) or "score" (now used in football etc. for any number). This mark came to signify the number twenty. An example by English poet A.E.Housman:

Now of my three score years and ten/ Twenty will not come again./ And take from seventy years a score,/ It only leaves me fifty more.
And since to look at things in bloom /Fifty springs are little room, /About the woodlands I will go /To see the cherry hung with snow."

[STS Lincolnite]

Eva, I have just begun doing some more in depth research on the Gettysburg address for a talk that I am preparing. The speech itself is incredible in how much it is able to articulate in so few words.

The beginning (Four score and seven years ago...) is believed to have been heavily influenced by a passage from the bible - Psalm 90:10. In the King James version of the Bible (which would have been most familiar to Lincoln and his audience), it reads as follows: “The days of our years are threescore and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.” That certainly would make sense as an influence based on Lincoln's knowledge of the bible. I'm sure the people of the time would have had a better everyday knowledge of the Bible than most people would have today. It would have sounded familiar to the crowd without being immediately recognizable (the passage I think is kind of an obscure one) and thereby immediately building a connection with the audience.

The first book I read about the Gettysburg Address (as I continue to move through my research stack) was Lincoln at Gettysburg: The Words that Remade America by Garry Wills. It goes in depth into the many influences (Biblical, Greek, etc.) for the speech. It is loaded with interesting tidbits about the speech and so much more related to Lincoln's visit to Gettysburg. It also has an appendix that includes the entire text of Edward Everett's speech (Wow. I had a hard time getting through that one). I would highly recommend the book.

[Rogerm]

The French actually begin their numerical craziness with the number seventy, or "soixante-dix"(sixty plus ten). The French word for "eighty", "quatre-vingt," is indeed the equivalent of "four score."(four times twenty) And, "ninety" comes out to "quatre-vingt-dix" or "four score and ten." However, not all French-speaking people count so "illogically." For the number 70, the French-speaking Belgians say "septant". And, for 90, the French-speaking Swiss say "nonante."

[HerbS]

Wow,Thanks for the derivation code breaking exercise!

[Gene C]

(12-01-2014 09:04 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  The beginning (Four score and seven years ago...) is believed to have been heavily influenced by a passage from the bible - Psalm 90:10. In the King James version of the Bible (which would have been most familiar to Lincoln and his audience), it reads as follows: “The days of our years are threescore and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.” That certainly would make sense as an influence based on Lincoln's knowledge of the bible. I'm sure the people of the time would have had a better everyday knowledge of the Bible than most people would have today. It would have sounded familiar to the crowd without being immediately recognizable (the passage I think is kind of an obscure one) and thereby immediately building a connection with the audience.

Thanks, I never made that connection.

[MaddieM]

(12-01-2014 07:04 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have a vague recollection of learning that a score meant twenty somewhere during elementary school, but I can't say I have ever heard it used except in the Gettysburg Address.

Another term that is seldom used today (at least to my knowledge) is "parlor." I know that RogerM can tell us that the word is derived from the French for "to talk." Somewhere in the early-1900s, it seems to have been changed to "living room." I'm not even sure we call it that any more. In the 1970s, the parlor/living room seemed to be the pretty room that no one went into unless you had special company. We inherited a "rec room" instead, and that now seems to be the "family room."

Great thread. I'm intrigued to know why the US spellings for words like Parlour and Colour dropped the u's.

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(12-01-2014 07:04 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have a vague recollection of learning that a score meant twenty somewhere during elementary school, but I can't say I have ever heard it used except in the Gettysburg Address.

Another term that is seldom used today (at least to my knowledge) is "parlor." I know that RogerM can tell us that the word is derived from the French for "to talk." Somewhere in the early-1900s, it seems to have been changed to "living room." I'm not even sure we call it that any more. In the 1970s, the parlor/living room seemed to be the pretty room that no one went into unless you had special company. We inherited a "rec room" instead, and that now seems to be the "family room."

In the UK, the parlour was also called the drawing room, rather the living room. It's a short version of withdrawing room, a room set aside specifically for entertainment rather than living in.

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Oddly, when I was little, the term 'Parlour' was deemed a big no no. Only people with delusions of grandeur named the front room most commonly used for entertaining the 'Parlour'. My mum, a stickler for etiquette, would never have called that room by that name. It was always the drawing room. These days, of course, nobody cares as most people don't have them any more.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(12-07-2014 07:16 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  I'm intrigued to know why the US spellings for words like Parlour and Colour dropped the u's.

My humble guess - the Americans were (are) more easygoing about making things simple and simply adapted the spelling of the French loanwords to the English pronunciation.

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Wow, my guess was correct: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/wor...n-spelling

[Wild Bill]

Noah Webster dropped several letters and changed the use of s and z to make a truly "American" form of English after the war of 1812 during the spurt of nationalism that typified the Era of Good Feelings. He put it all in his dictionary which became standard. And it was easier to spell, a problem which most Americans still have today, including me, your scribe.

[Rick Smith]

(12-01-2014 05:12 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I don't have the answer, but I hope someone will: Where does "score=20" (Gettysburg Address) come from? Is it still used today?

It may be old English. "Score" is used frequently in the King James Bible.

[HerbS]

"Four Score and 20yrs ago",Gettysburg Address.What is a score in music?

[Rick Smith]

"Score" is from the Old English "scoru" meaning twenty.

[L Verge]

The word "score" has lots of meanings: One can score points, score lines in wood, etc. One of those crazy English words, I guess. As far as musical scores, doesn't that refer to sections of a composition that are indicated for specific instruments?