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Gene C · 10-01-2014, 01:12 PM

(10-01-2014 12:42 PM)Warren Wrote: Slight aside, and I apologize, but I'm seeing photos from the Meserve Collection showing up on that (in)famous internet auction site. They state that they were made directly from the negatives in the Meserve collection, and one even has the handwriting of Meserve on an envelope enclosing the photos. I truly believe these are real, and they seem to be from a reputable seller. But were there only a few that would have been made from the collection's negatives, or would they in actuality be quite common? I'm looking to add to my photo collection and want to get as many first generations as I can. Thanks, and sorry for the interrupt.

Just my opinion, but I am hesitant to buy anything of this nature off ebay, unless I know the seller is a reputable dealer of historical items.

L Verge · 10-01-2014, 01:49 PM

Blaine Houmes should give some advice here on buying reputable photos. He's one member of the forum that I know is quite knowledgeable in the field of photographs of our favorite subject.

LincolnToddFan · 10-01-2014, 08:52 PM

(09-30-2014 12:01 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Kees, the thread "The Interminable, Everlasting Lincolns" includes discussion of Lincoln's last photo.

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...-1351.html

RE: "The Interminable, Everlasting Lincolns"
Part 1

"A president’s last sittings, different interpretations of photographs, and the predispositions of storytellers vs. collectors."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...rt-1/?_r=0

"The story of the crack, along with the original April 9 date, was printed in The New York Times on Feb. 12, 1922. O-118 was captioned: “The President Sat for This Photograph Just Five Days Before Booth Shot Him. The Cracked Negative Caused it To Be Discarded. It Has Only Once Before Been Published, and Then in a Retouched Form.” The accompanying text by James Young read:

"Probably no other photograph of Lincoln conveys more clearly the abiding sadness of the face. The lines of time and care are deeply etched, and he has the look of a man bordering upon old age, though he was only 56. Proof that the camera was but a few feet away may be found by scrutiny of this picture… The print has been untouched, and this picture is an exact likeness of the President as he looked in the week of his death." [10]

I've seen "the crack photo" my entire life, and it has never ceased to send a chill up my spine. There is something about it that is so poignant and haunting. AL definitely has the look of a man who has run his race...and perhaps knows it.

And I would never, ever believe he is only 56 years old! Sad

Thanks as always Linda!

STS Lincolnite · 10-01-2014, 10:14 PM

Since it wasn't directly posted earlier in the thread, I thought I would post the Henry F. Warren photo that is now considered the last portrait of the living Lincoln (March 6, 1865). He doesn't look as haggard as in the February, 1865 Gardner photo.

Gene C · 10-02-2014, 07:02 AM

Thanks for posting the photo, and I agree, he looks a little healthier.

Houmes · 10-02-2014, 09:08 AM

(10-01-2014 01:12 PM)Gene C Wrote:
(10-01-2014 12:42 PM)Warren Wrote: Slight aside, and I apologize, but I'm seeing photos from the Meserve Collection showing up on that (in)famous internet auction site. They state that they were made directly from the negatives in the Meserve collection, and one even has the handwriting of Meserve on an envelope enclosing the photos. I truly believe these are real, and they seem to be from a reputable seller. But were there only a few that would have been made from the collection's negatives, or would they in actuality be quite common? I'm looking to add to my photo collection and want to get as many first generations as I can. Thanks, and sorry for the interrupt.

Just my opinion, but I am hesitant to buy anything of this nature off ebay, unless I know the seller is a reputable dealer of historical items.

Frederick Hill Meserve reprints are old, but not "old old." He didn't begin having his collection of Lincoln images produced or reproduced until after 1900, when he first bought some original Brady glass negatives as a lark, wandering into a New York auction gallery and acquiring a small bundle without even looking at them before bidding. He later bought original images, including the inventory (two truckloads) of the E. & H.T. Anthony photo studio in New York. He bought in bulk: 30,000 images of actors, collections and single images of every type of famous person, etc., etc., eventually over 200,000 images by 1944.

The Meserve prints with the handwritten envelope on Ebay are undoubtedly legit, but I view them as a novelty because they're not contemporary images. Vintage CDVs were made with an albumen emulsion between 1850-1890. Authentic Civil War images will have a revenue stamp on the back if made between 1864 to 1866, which served as a tax imposed by the federal government to pay for the war. Meserve had his images reproduced by a paid photographer, using later film. Meserve, as an experiment, even had two ambrotypes made, placed in old cases. One showed up in the collection of the Huntington Library and was documented as an original, contemporary image until Meserve called them out during a visit. Meserve was a giant in the Lincoln photo field, but his images should be valued in context.

Warren · 10-02-2014, 11:37 AM

(10-02-2014 09:08 AM)Houmes Wrote:
(10-01-2014 01:12 PM)Gene C Wrote:
(10-01-2014 12:42 PM)Warren Wrote: Slight aside, and I apologize, but I'm seeing photos from the Meserve Collection showing up on that (in)famous internet auction site. They state that they were made directly from the negatives in the Meserve collection, and one even has the handwriting of Meserve on an envelope enclosing the photos. I truly believe these are real, and they seem to be from a reputable seller. But were there only a few that would have been made from the collection's negatives, or would they in actuality be quite common? I'm looking to add to my photo collection and want to get as many first generations as I can. Thanks, and sorry for the interrupt.

Just my opinion, but I am hesitant to buy anything of this nature off ebay, unless I know the seller is a reputable dealer of historical items.

Frederick Hill Meserve reprints are old, but not "old old." He didn't begin having his collection of Lincoln images produced or reproduced until after 1900, when he first bought some original Brady glass negatives as a lark, wandering into a New York auction gallery and acquiring a small bundle without even looking at them before bidding. He later bought original images, including the inventory (two truckloads) of the E. & H.T. Anthony photo studio in New York. He bought in bulk: 30,000 images of actors, collections and single images of every type of famous person, etc., etc., eventually over 200,000 images by 1944.

The Meserve prints with the handwritten envelope on Ebay are undoubtedly legit, but I view them as a novelty because they're not contemporary images. Vintage CDVs were made with an albumen emulsion between 1850-1890. Authentic Civil War images will have a revenue stamp on the back if made between 1864 to 1866, which served as a tax imposed by the federal government to pay for the war. Meserve had his images reproduced by a paid photographer, using later film. Meserve, as an experiment, even had two ambrotypes made, placed in old cases. One showed up in the collection of the Huntington Library and was documented as an original, contemporary image until Meserve called them out during a visit. Meserve was a giant in the Lincoln photo field, but his images should be valued in context.

Thank you for such an excellent reply! I'm printing it out and keeping it in my research file. You made note the revenue stamps. In my thread asking whether the photo of the young lady is Annie Surratt ( and its not), a revenue stamp of the period is attached to the back, so at least that helps in dating it.

Houmes · 10-02-2014, 04:12 PM

[/quote]
Thank you for such an excellent reply! I'm printing it out and keeping it in my research file. You made note the revenue stamps. In my thread asking whether the photo of the young lady is Annie Surratt ( and its not), a revenue stamp of the period is attached to the back, so at least that helps in dating it.
[/quote]

Forgot to tell you: Meserve put his imprint on the back of some of his reprints, and not on others. And disreputable sellers and dealers may place a fake Meserve imprint on the back if they want to market it with that added appeal. In the older albumen images of Lincoln (invariably those printed after his death) a real or fake revenue stamp may be placed on the back of an image to increase the value and mislead the buyer.

Best book I've ever seen on evaluating old images: James M. Reilly's "Care and Identification of 19th-Century Photographic Prints" published by Eastman Kodak Co., 1986. Paperback, still available. Profusely illustrated.

10-03-2014, 05:56 AM

(10-01-2014 10:14 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: Since it wasn't directly posted earlier in the thread, I thought I would post the Henry F. Warren photo that is now considered the last portrait of the living Lincoln (March 6, 1865). He doesn't look as haggard as in the February, 1865 Gardner photo.

I've always felt that Lincoln looks very aggravated in the Warren photo, almost like he didn't want to pose in the first place

STS Lincolnite · 10-03-2014, 11:51 AM

(10-03-2014 05:56 AM)Hess1865 Wrote:
(10-01-2014 10:14 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote: Since it wasn't directly posted earlier in the thread, I thought I would post the Henry F. Warren photo that is now considered the last portrait of the living Lincoln (March 6, 1865). He doesn't look as haggard as in the February, 1865 Gardner photo.

I've always felt that Lincoln looks very aggravated in the Warren photo, almost like he didn't want to pose in the first place

I seem to remember reading that that was in fact the case. Someone may correct me if I am wrong - I may be remembering wrong and the story may just be false. I think I remember the story going something as follows: Tad was out on the white house lawn and Mr. Warren as asked he if could take his picture. Of course, Tad agreed. Mr. Warren then asked Tad to go bring his father down for a picture. Which Tad did. Lincoln was not thrilled but I suppose agreed to do it to satisfy Tad. The photo was taken outdoors as well with the wind blowing so his hair does look windblown.

RJNorton · 10-03-2014, 12:25 PM

That's it, Scott. Ostendorf writes, "Posing just to please his son..."

loetar44 · (This post was last modified: 10-03-2014 02:49 PM by loetar44.)

Is the photo which Mr. Warren took of Tad known and published?

And at what place "outdoors" exactly was President Lincolns photo taken? Some accounts say on the balcony at the southfront of the White House. But, was there in 1865 a balcony? Was there a balcony at all in 1865? I thought the only balcony is the Truman balcony.

STS Lincolnite · 10-03-2014, 04:03 PM

(10-03-2014 02:49 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Is the photo which Mr. Warren took of Tad known and published?

And at what place "outdoors" exactly was President Lincolns photo taken? Some accounts say on the balcony at the southfront of the White House. But, was there in 1865 a balcony? Was there a balcony at all in 1865? I thought the only balcony is the Truman balcony.

I think the photos were taken on the north front. If the photos attached are what they claim to be that makes the most sense.
Tad on the white house lawn.
Lincoln standing in front of white house (see attached zoom in of photo for "Lincoln")

Also attached is a photo of Tad taken by Warren at that time.

RJNorton · 10-03-2014, 04:25 PM

Kees and Scott - I have "south portico" in my files for Warren's March 6th Abraham Lincoln photos. I am not sure myself, but that is what I have. I have forgotten what location I used to have on my website, but in 2005 a gentleman wrote me, and he was so certain and convincing it was "south portico" that I changed my page.

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 10-03-2014 07:15 PM by L Verge.)

Go here for some nice photos to help in distinguishing north facade from south facade of White House in 1865:

http://www.whitehousehistory.org/history...graphs.pdf

A good way to distinguish is sharp pointed roof - north; rounded roof - south There was no balcony in 1865. The photo with Tad was taken on the north lawn. Much of the south lawn had military encampments.