The “rubber box” or did Laura Keene indeed held Lincoln’s head?

[L Verge]

(09-11-2014 11:07 AM)Gene C Wrote:  How would Laura Keene have been dressed, had she made it into the presidential box? With those big dresses, making it up the stairs, down that narrow corridor, and finally into the box, it must have been very crowded, even for a short period of time. And how quickly could she have gotton to the box? That's why I am a bit skeptical at this point.

For you fashion experts. How much personal space would Mary, Clara and Laura occupy or need the way they were dressed that night. Do we know what Mary wore? I don't recall any discussion of that before.

A conservative estimate on the diameter of each lady's hoop would be 3-4 feet, and that is assuming that they had a medium hoop on - not the larger hoops that were designed for ball gowns. Of course, you also have to take into consideration whether or not the ladies were seated at any point.

I would assume that Mary was so overcome that she would be seated and not taking up as much space. Did Clara sit down to tend to Rathbone? Now, Laura would have taken up even more space if she seated herself on the floor. Those hoops collapse down to even larger size.

I also take into consideration the space taken up by the rockers on Lincoln's chair. Being raised in a Victorian home, I am well aware that those rockers reach out a distance from the back of the chair and viciously attack the ankles of anyone who gets close!

As for Mary's dress, all I know is that it was a black and white striped fabric. I'm sure that it was not a ball gown. I believe it was given to the wife of a White House messenger (Slade?), but I don't know what happened to it after that.

The Chicago Historical Society once claimed to have a scrap of its fabric - along with her cloak and bonnet - but I have also seen reference that Mrs. Keckly gave those items to Wilberforce College, and they were missing back in the 1960s.

[RJNorton]

(09-11-2014 08:49 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  No direct statement from Laura Keene has ever been found.

Clara Harris vehemently denied that Laura Keene was ever at any time in the state box.

A statement by Dr. Leale confirmed that Laura Keene was there and that he gave her permission to hold the president’s head in her lap.

Jeannie Gourlay made the statement that her father escorted Laura Keene to the state box and later wrote that Laura Keene raised Lincoln’s head and “…found blood trickling down her dress.”

The statements were actually made many years later Dr. Charles Leale (44 years), Jeannie Gourlay (58 years) and like you said Jim: William Ferguson 65 years.

I believe GATH's The life, crime, and capture of John Wilkes Booth: with a full sketch of the conspiracy of which he was the leader, and the pursuit, trial, and execution of his accomplices was published in 1865.

In it he wrote:

"Miss Laura Keene, the actress, proved herself in this awful time as equal to sustain a part in real tragedy as to interpret that of the stage. Pausing one moment before the footlights to entreat the audience to be calm, she ascended the stairs in the rear of Mr. Lincoln's box, entered it, took the dying President's head in her lap, bathed it with the water she had brought, and endeavoured to force some of the liquid through the insensible lips. The locality of the wound was at first supposed to be in the breast. It was not until after the neck and shoulders had been bared and no mark discovered, that the dress of Miss Keene, stained with blood, revealed where the ball had penetrated."

https://archive.org/stream/lifecrimecapt...n_djvu.txt

My question: if all the statements came later where did Townsend get this information in 1865?

[loetar44]

I’ve always understood that Miss Keene never made an official statement about how she reached the box. She, and only she, would be a primary source. All stories of about how she get there and what she did there are secondary. Even her statement presented by John Creahan in “The Life of Laura Keene" (1897).

https://archive.org/details/lifeoflaurakeene00increa
page 27/28

Did she ever testify during the conspiracy trial? Did she ever gave an interview? All I've read are ""second hand statements", or did I miss something?

[Eva Elisabeth]

(09-10-2014 08:03 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:  No pitcher has surfaced. Found in the box were Deringer, shirt collar, pine bar (in vestibule), hat. Other items, cane and bloodstained flag.

Thanks, Jim!

Thanks for the link, Kees. Interestingly the source given is "New York Herald, April 15, 1865".

There's another statement on p. 135 by a Mrs. Eldridge:
"I met her [L. K.]first in April, 1865, the week after the assassination of the lamented Lincoln., when she came to play an engagement at Wood’s Theatre, Cincinnati, where I was a member of the stock company.She then told me the entire story of the assassination, and how she went into the box at Ford’s Theatre, Washington, and held the head of the murdered president. She also gave me a piece of the dress she wore at the time. I cannot now find the scrap, as it is more than thirty years since that sad event took place." The (questionable) statement is well examined and commented here:
http://civilwar.gratzpa.org/2012/03/laur...incinnati/
Maybe it's what you referred to in post #5, Kees, there is more than one respective article on that site.

However, there are several statements claiming Laura Keene's presence in the box, only one disagreeing conradictioning one - Clara Harris'.

The question is - for what reasons could/would Clara Harris have lied?

[Jim Garrett]

See, I'm right!! Rich Smyth, Tom Bogar and I believe Laura Keene was in the box. nuf said

[RobertLC]

Laura Keene did not testify at the trial of the conspirators, according to Jill Mitchell’s list of witnesses. Moreover, neither Dr. Leale nor Dr. Taft mentioned her being in the State Box in their 1865 reports of attending the President.

Tom Bogar notes in his book that her friend and fellow actress Kate Reignolds said that Keene could not “bear to hear the slightest allusion to that moment” meaning the assassination, of course. So maybe she never granted any interviews or published any accounts.

An excellent account about her being or not being in the box is provided by Norman Gasbarro, “Laura Keene and the Bloody Dress.” He also mentions Billy J. Harbin’s study of the issue, which I have not read.

Robert

[RJNorton]

(09-11-2014 09:16 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:  See, I'm right!! Rich Smyth, Tom Bogar and I believe Laura Keene was in the box. nuf said

Hi Jim. I am still straddling this one. Do you have any idea why Clara Harris was so adamant in her denial of Keene's presence? She is the only one of the presidential party who made a statement on this. I did a search of Mary Lincoln's letters, and she never once mentioned Keene's name in a letter.

Also, I think RogerM (and others, too) once made the point of Mary's probable reaction to another woman cradling her husband's head. Do you feel she was in such a state of shock that she was numb to react?

At the same time I am mystified by GATH's inclusion of Keene's role in an 1865 book. I am thinking he must have talked to some of the actors in the play, and they told him what Keene did.

So a part of me thinks Keene was there and a part is still somewhat doubtful.

[loetar44]

Eva, your question "for what reasons could/would Clara Harris have lied?" is I think a logical question, and logically seen, there are two answers.

(1) Clara did not lie at all, Laura Keene was not in the box.
(2) Clara had a good reason to deny that Laura Keen was in the box

Ad (1).

I found at

http://www.hersheystory.org/lib/docs/his...jf-1st.pdf
“The diary of Laura Keene”. I don’t know if this is fabricated or a transcript. I’ve never heard before about a diary. Does anyone know more about the origin of this diary? Anyway the following says Laura was not in the state box:

“Although I was quite afraid I realized I needed to try to calm the crowd. I pulled back the curtains and promptly walked to middle stage and shouted to the crowd, “For God’s sake have presence of mind, and keep your places, and all will be well.” Most didn’t listen to me. They already had doctors helping carry Lincoln to a house across the street. I ran out the door with them to the small room where Lincoln died the next morning. It was the most horrifying sight in all of history. But one thing I will never forget is the knowing eyes that I was lucky enough to see, the very night our 16th president left us.”

This raises a new question: was Laura Keene indeed at AL’s death bed ? Does anyone have the answer? I always thought she went after the shooting to St. Patrick’s Catholic Church which was located across the back alley from Ford’s Theatre and after that to the Metropolitan Hotel where she was staying.

Ad (2).

If Laura was indeed in the state box, why Clara then said that she was never there? Maybe, and I’m only guessing, she wanted Mary to protect for more suffering and sorrow. Clara was greatly moved and had deep compassion on Mary. Why then to spread the news that it was not his wife, but Laura who cradled Lincoln’s severely wounded head in her lap. Why say Mary was not able to do, because she was totally out of control? How many questions would have raised that! Remember Clara stayed in Petersen’s House to stay close to Mary to comfort her, leaving her seriously injured fiancé Maj. Rathbone.

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(09-11-2014 01:06 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  My question: if all the statements came later where did Townsend get this information in 1865?

Roger, how reliable is Townsend? For me was this Civil War reporter and author in the first place the man who sensationalized Keene's story:

“Miss Laura Keene... took the dying President's head in her lap, bathed it with water she had brought, and endeavored to force some of the liquid through the insensible lips. The locality of the wound was at first supposed to be in the breast. It was not until after the neck and shoulder had been bared, and no mark discovered, that the dress of Miss Keene, stained with blood, revealed where the ball had penetrated. The chief magistrate of 30,000,000 people - beloved, honored, revered - lay in the pent-up closet of a play house, dabbling with his sacred blood the robes of an actress …..”, etc, etc.

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(09-11-2014 09:16 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:  See, I'm right!! Rich Smyth, Tom Bogar and I believe Laura Keene was in the box. nuf said

I’m still not convinced. I tend to believe she was not there, because any primary evidence for this is still lacking. It still feels for me a cherished legend that evolved over time, knowing that the assassination of Abraham Lincoln is surrounded by so much myth and legend.

[RJNorton]

(09-12-2014 07:40 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  “The diary of Laura Keene”. I don’t know if this is fabricated or a transcript. I’ve never heard before about a diary. Does anyone know more about the origin of this diary? Anyway the following says Laura was not in the state box:
and legend.

Hi Kees. Based on the URL I believe that is fiction. I think it was an entry in a writing contest.

http://www.hersheystory.org/education/hi...lines.aspx

"The Hershey Story offers this writing contest as a way to encourage students to communicate their interest in and knowledge of history in a creative and coherent manner."

[Jim Garrett]

(09-12-2014 05:25 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-11-2014 09:16 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:  See, I'm right!! Rich Smyth, Tom Bogar and I believe Laura Keene was in the box. nuf said

Hi Jim. I am still straddling this one. Do you have any idea why Clara Harris was so adamant in her denial of Keene's presence? She is the only one of the presidential party who made a statement on this. I did a search of Mary Lincoln's letters, and she never once mentioned Keene's name in a letter.

Also, I think RogerM (and others, too) once made the point of Mary's probable reaction to another woman cradling her husband's head. Do you feel she was in such a state of shock that she was numb to react?

At the same time I am mystified by GATH's inclusion of Keene's role in an 1865 book. I am thinking he must have talked to some of the actors in the play, and they told him what Keene did.

So a part of me thinks Keene was there and a part is still somewhat doubtful.

I think there may be several possibilities. First, it could be as simple as a faulty recollection. Think about the stress at that moment. The President has a mortal would, her fiance is bleeding all over the place, there is total pandemonium in a very confined space. I think her attention would be focused on Henry.

Second, and I can't take credit for this one, it may be from Rich. Laura was an actress! Actors and actresses were still viewd as a group just above gypsies. No actress should have, would have been in any proximity of the President.

Third, it could be just plain old jealousy. I've never been able to get to understand Clara. By the standards of the day, she would have been boardering on spinsterhood. I have always thought that Henry (who I think was always at best, somewhat unbalanced) was her last best chance at marriage. Did Clara consider Keene a social threat for the attention in the box?

I believe Clara is the only source that Keene was not in the box.

[J. Beckert]

I think Seaton Monroe's statement about Keene's dress and the "sorry stains" while she was still in the theater lend a lot of credence to idea she was in close proximity to Lincoln.

[RJNorton]

(09-12-2014 08:36 AM)J. Beckert Wrote:  I think Seaton Monroe's statement about Keene's dress and the "sorry stains" while she was still in the theater lend a lot of credence to idea she was in close proximity to Lincoln.

I agree, Joe. Even if some of it was Rathbone's blood it indicates proximity. My only problem with it is that it came 31 years later (1896). If it came in 1865 I probably would cease straddling this issue.

[Susan Higginbotham]

Clara Harris made the statement about Laura Keene some years after the fact, in 1877, enough time for her own memory to have clouded. I tried looking for the article in the Philadelphia Weekly Times on Newspapers.com, but it seems to be in a weekly supplement that hasn't been digitized.

[Eva Elisabeth]

As I once said, although I believe Keene might have reached the box, but that she held Lincoln's head in her lap like Mary Magdalene washed Jesus' feet reminds IMO too much of a movie, and that jealous Mary allowed any (especially strange) woman despite a nurse, famous or not, to do this (and to take over a role for which Mary herself) I find questionable.

[L Verge]

That is my gut feeling also, Eva, coupled with the fact that I cannot imagine any of the doctors allowing it. She may have brought water when they called for it, but to lift the wounded head and cradle it while they were trying to keep clots from forming and also resuscitate him just does not seem kosher.

I also don't care how forceful a woman she was in theater matters, to force your way into a crime scene and take it upon yourself to ignore Mary and Clara and assume such a "familiar" pose is totally out of the realm of proper, Victorian society - especially when the victim is President of the United States.