Jefferson Davis and the Conspiracy

[L Verge]

I received an email yesterday from the Lincoln expert Harold Holzer asking if I knew of any statements that Jefferson Davis made when he learned of the assassination of Lincoln. Off the top of my head, I knew that it sounded very Shakespearean to me, something like, "If it were to be done, it is better that it be done well." I found the statement later on a site conducted through the Law Dept. at the University of Missouri/Kansas City and sent that citation to Harold.

In his careful style, however, that was not a primary source, so he quizzed me again on the original source. I shortly received an email from Ed Steers wanting to know the source. Believe it or not, it's on the Surratt website in the section on transcripts from the trial compiled by Society member Jill Myers of this forum. God bless you, Jill!

Here is the testimony from Lewis Bates, a witness for the prosecution:

Jefferson Davis and the Assassination
The prosecution presented a number of witnesses linking Confederate President Jefferson Davis to the plot to abduct or assassinate Abraham Lincoln. Some of the witnesses described a cipher from Davis that reached Confederate agents in Montreal on April 6, 1865. Lewis Bates, the witness whose testimony is excerpted below, describes Davis's reaction upon learning of Lincoln's assassination.



LEWIS F. BATES.
For the Prosecution.-May 30.
I reside in Charlotte, N. C., where I have resided a little over four years. I am Superintendent of the Southern Express Company for the State of North Carolina. I am a native of Massachusetts. On the 19th of April, Jefferson Davis stopped at my house in Charlotte, when he made an address to the people from the steps of my house. While speaking, a telegram from John C. Breckinridge was handed him.

[The following telegram was here read to the Commission:]

Greensboro, April 19, 1865.

His Excellency President Davis :
President Lincoln was assassinated in the theater in Washington on the night of the 11th instant. Seward's house was entered on the same night, and he was repeatedly stabbed, and is probably mortally wounded.
JOHN C. BRECKINRIDGE.

In concluding his speech, Jefferson Davis read that dispatch aloud, and made this remark, "If it were to be done, it were better it were well done." I am quite sure these are the words he used.

A day or two afterward, Jefferson Davis and John C. Breckinridge were present at my house, when the assassination of the President was the subject of conversation. In speaking of it, John C. Breckinridge remarked to Davis, that he regretted it very much; that it was very unfortunate for the people of the South at that time. Davis replied, " Well, General, I don't know, if it were to be done at all, it were better that it were well done; and if the same had been done to Andy Johnson, the beast, and to Secretary Stanton, the job would then be complete. No remark was made at all as to the criminality of the act, and from the expression used by John C. Breckinridge, I drew the conclusion that he simply regarded it as unfortunate for the people of the South at that time.

J. C. COURTNEY.
For the Prosecution-May 30.

I reside in Charlotte, N. C., and am engaged in the telegraphing business, in connection with the Southern Express Company. The telegram to which Mr. Bates has just testified is a true copy of the message that was transmitted to Jefferson Davis on the 19th of April last, and signed John C. Breckinridge. I was standing by the Operator when the message was received. Jefferson Davis received the message at Mr. Bates's house in Charlotte, to which place he had come from Greensburg or Concord, where he had stopped the night before.

JAMES E. RUSSELL.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I reside in Springfield, Mass. I have known Lewis F. Bates for about twenty-five years. For the last five years I have not known any thing of his whereabouts, until I learned from him that he had been living in Charlotte, N. C. He was in business as baggage-master on the Western Railroad, Massachusetts, while I was conductor, and I never heard any thing against his reputation for truth.

WILLIAM L. CRANE.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I am the agent of Adams's Express Company in New York Eastern Division. I nave known Lewis F. Bates since 1848, and have never heard anything against his reputation as a man of truth and integrity.

DANIEL H. WILCOX.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.
I left the South a year ago last April I have known Mr. L. F. Bates for two or three years quite intimately; he occupied a position of great trust and responsibility, and is a man of truth and integrity. He bore the best reputation possible. His character is without reproach, as far as I know.

JULES SOULE.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I reside in the city of New York at present; for the past few years I have lived in Columbia, S. C. I knew Mr. L. F. Bates; he bore the reputation of a truthful and reliable man, in every respect, to the best of my knowledge. We have been intimately connected in business for the last three or four years. The position he occupied was one of high responsibility and trust.


I will let y'all interpret Davis's comments any way you want to...

[LincolnToddFan]

I think the remark, if indeed J.D. made it, which I doubt-was crude and unworthy of him. I am by no means an admirer of the man but he never strikes me as that cold blooded and mean spirited.

In his memoirs he made a comment to the effect that he had no particular esteem for Mr. Lincoln, but there were a great many other men whom he would rather have been removed from the scene. ( Jefferson Davis, The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government)

That was an honest statement, devoid of both hypocrisy and cruelty.

[Linda Anderson]

(07-29-2014 06:29 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I received an email yesterday from the Lincoln expert Harold Holzer asking if I knew of any statements that Jefferson Davis made when he learned of the assassination of Lincoln. Off the top of my head, I knew that it sounded very Shakespearean to me, something like, "If it were to be done, it is better that it be done well." I found the statement later on a site conducted through the Law Dept. at the University of Missouri/Kansas City and sent that citation to Harold.

Your instincts are right, Laurie. Davis may have been thinking of what Macbeth says when he is contemplating the murder of his kinsman King Duncan.

"If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly:"

[SSlater]

(07-29-2014 06:29 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I received an email yesterday from the Lincoln expert Harold Holzer asking if I knew of any statements that Jefferson Davis made when he learned of the assassination of Lincoln. Off the top of my head, I knew that it sounded very Shakespearean to me, something like, "If it were to be done, it is better that it be done well." I found the statement later on a site conducted through the Law Dept. at the University of Missouri/Kansas City and sent that citation to Harold.

In his careful style, however, that was not a primary source, so he quizzed me again on the original source. I shortly received an email from Ed Steers wanting to know the source. Believe it or not, it's on the Surratt website in the section on transcripts from the trial compiled by Society member Jill Myers of this forum. God bless you, Jill!

Here is the testimony from Lewis Bates, a witness for the prosecution:

Jefferson Davis and the Assassination
The prosecution presented a number of witnesses linking Confederate President Jefferson Davis to the plot to abduct or assassinate Abraham Lincoln. Some of the witnesses described a cipher from Davis that reached Confederate agents in Montreal on April 6, 1865. Lewis Bates, the witness whose testimony is excerpted below, describes Davis's reaction upon learning of Lincoln's assassination.



LEWIS F. BATES.
For the Prosecution.-May 30.
I reside in Charlotte, N. C., where I have resided a little over four years. I am Superintendent of the Southern Express Company for the State of North Carolina. I am a native of Massachusetts. On the 19th of April, Jefferson Davis stopped at my house in Charlotte, when he made an address to the people from the steps of my house. While speaking, a telegram from John C. Breckinridge was handed him.

[The following telegram was here read to the Commission:]

Greensboro, April 19, 1865.

His Excellency President Davis :
President Lincoln was assassinated in the theater in Washington on the night of the 11th instant. Seward's house was entered on the same night, and he was repeatedly stabbed, and is probably mortally wounded.
JOHN C. BRECKINRIDGE.

In concluding his speech, Jefferson Davis read that dispatch aloud, and made this remark, "If it were to be done, it were better it were well done." I am quite sure these are the words he used.

A day or two afterward, Jefferson Davis and John C. Breckinridge were present at my house, when the assassination of the President was the subject of conversation. In speaking of it, John C. Breckinridge remarked to Davis, that he regretted it very much; that it was very unfortunate for the people of the South at that time. Davis replied, " Well, General, I don't know, if it were to be done at all, it were better that it were well done; and if the same had been done to Andy Johnson, the beast, and to Secretary Stanton, the job would then be complete. No remark was made at all as to the criminality of the act, and from the expression used by John C. Breckinridge, I drew the conclusion that he simply regarded it as unfortunate for the people of the South at that time.

J. C. COURTNEY.
For the Prosecution-May 30.

I reside in Charlotte, N. C., and am engaged in the telegraphing business, in connection with the Southern Express Company. The telegram to which Mr. Bates has just testified is a true copy of the message that was transmitted to Jefferson Davis on the 19th of April last, and signed John C. Breckinridge. I was standing by the Operator when the message was received. Jefferson Davis received the message at Mr. Bates's house in Charlotte, to which place he had come from Greensburg or Concord, where he had stopped the night before.

JAMES E. RUSSELL.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I reside in Springfield, Mass. I have known Lewis F. Bates for about twenty-five years. For the last five years I have not known any thing of his whereabouts, until I learned from him that he had been living in Charlotte, N. C. He was in business as baggage-master on the Western Railroad, Massachusetts, while I was conductor, and I never heard any thing against his reputation for truth.

WILLIAM L. CRANE.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I am the agent of Adams's Express Company in New York Eastern Division. I nave known Lewis F. Bates since 1848, and have never heard anything against his reputation as a man of truth and integrity.

DANIEL H. WILCOX.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.
I left the South a year ago last April I have known Mr. L. F. Bates for two or three years quite intimately; he occupied a position of great trust and responsibility, and is a man of truth and integrity. He bore the best reputation possible. His character is without reproach, as far as I know.

JULES SOULE.
For the Prosecution.-June 9.

I reside in the city of New York at present; for the past few years I have lived in Columbia, S. C. I knew Mr. L. F. Bates; he bore the reputation of a truthful and reliable man, in every respect, to the best of my knowledge. We have been intimately connected in business for the last three or four years. The position he occupied was one of high responsibility and trust.


I will let y'all interpret Davis's comments any way you want to...

Laurie. Don't let that delivery date of the Cipher, to Montreal -April 6. 1865, pass unnoticed. That was the exact that Surratt and Slater arrived in Montreal on their last trip North.

[L Verge]

John,

You know me well, so you know that I tend to agree with Tidwell, Hall, and Gaddy in their Come Retribution theory that the Confederate high command was well aware of at least the original plot to abduct Lincoln. I think it also explains the Harney plot to blow up the White House and the flurry of activity in Montreal as Richmond began to fall. Whether to place the blame on Davis or Judah Benjamin (or both)? I haven't made up my mind.

However, from the standpoint of having a war going on and making decisions from a military and political perspective, it makes sense that the Confederate hierarchy would plot such things. I also believe that the Union hierarchy would plot such things as the Dahlgren Raid. I will now await "execution" from this panel.

[BettyO]

Consider me standing on the gallows along with you, Laurie - I believe the very same.... I also think that there is more to Come Retribution than is said.

The Confederacy was desperate at this stretch of time and were grasping for straws at any and every angle.

[Kieran McAuliffe]

For those who might think Jefferson Davis was not capable of words that might approve of Lincoln’s death; remember the Kilpatrick-Dahlgren Raid. This Union raid on Richmond, approved by Lincoln, just one year previous, failed, but on the body of Ulric Dahlgren were found papers that showed that at least one of the leaders of the raid was planning on killing Jeff Davis and his cabinet and burning Richmond. The official reason for the raid was to release Union prisoners held there before they could be sent south to a new POW camp at Andersonville. Davis and his cabinet were, of course, shocked and demanded answers. Did Davis think Lincoln was behind the plot to kill him and the cabinet?

[L Verge]

Who else but a head of state could legally approve such drastic measures?

[Anita]

(07-30-2014 12:02 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Who else but a head of state could legally approve such drastic measures?

Maybe a loose cannon like JWB.

[BettyO]

Quote:Who else but a head of state could legally approve such drastic measures?

Agreed, Laurie - I think that someone high up in the Confederate hierachy knew about the goings on and officially sanctioned it. JWB as a "loose cannon?" Probably so - but I also believe that the CS government knew more about JWB and Company than it let on -

[L Verge]

Agreed, Betty. And Anita, when I was referring to a head of state who could sanction a death mission against Jefferson Davis and the officers of the Confederate government, I meant Lincoln! If not Lincoln, then who else had the power to issue such an order that the U.S. military would obey? Did we have a rogue agent usurping power in D.C.? And, yes, I do believe that the Kilpatrick-Dahlgren mission was a legitimate one.

As for JWB, James O. Hall always considered him a "loose cannon" once Richmond fell, Harney was arrested, and the lines of communication were blown. "Something decisive" had to be done - and Booth was going to do it.

[Anita]

I haven't found any evidence that Lincoln was behind this. Besides it would work against his desire to have a peaceful reconciliation with the South after the war. However a lot of paper was destroyed by Stanton and Robert Lincoln that help to fuel speculation.

While reading on this subject I found references that the Dahlgren papers were photographed in 1864! I'm beginning to think maybe photography was used in the Civil War after all. I'm referring to the thread I recently posted on the practice of photographing records during the civil war.

These are just a few quotes referring to the "photographed" Dalgren papers taken from an article " The Dahlgren Papers Revisited" at http://www.historynet.com/jefferson-davis

"Other officers and bureaucrats in Richmond, however, refused to let the Dahlgren matter end. The notorious papers were photographed, and Secretary of State Benjamin sent copies to John Slidell, the Confederacy’s European envoy..."

"...On March 30, General Lee was instructed to send a set of photographs of the papers by flag of truce to the high command of the Army of the Potomac and ascertain if Dahlgren was acting under the orders of his government and superiors and ‘whether the Government of the United States sanctions the sentiments and purposes therein set forth."

"...In 1879, Early carefully examined a set of the photographs taken in Richmond of the original Dahlgren address to his men. There were three photographic prints: one each of the two pages on cavalry corps stationery, and a third showing the concluding six lines of the address and the signature. Early pointed out that the conclusion of the speech was written across the back of page one, and that the inked writing had seeped through the thin paper. In the signature this show-through of letters from page one was quite marked, and it was possible to read Dahlgren’s signature, Early thought, as a misspelling of his name..."

"Consequently, the present-day historical record of the Dahlgren papers consists of a badly faded set of the photographs taken by the Confederates, held in the National Archives;..."

[L Verge]

A special mission such as this should not have left any paper trail, if performed properly. Therefore, we will likely always be able to only speculate on who gave the order to enter Richmond and dispose of the government officials. Wonder what was really in those papers that Stanton and Robert hurriedly destroyed? Were they protecting Stanton? Lincoln? Dahlgren (to please his influential father)?

If I'm not mistaken, Ed Steers was in on some of the research on the authenticity of the papers found on Dahlgren. I hope he weighs in. James O. Hall was pretty sure that it was a mission led from the top down, and I believe Dr. David Long wrote a book on the subject about twenty years ago supporting the theory that the U.S. government sanctioned the Raid.

---

I also meant to say that March of 1864 was a pivotal time for Lincoln's political career. There was an election coming up in November that he was afraid he would lose to Peace Democrats or others who wanted that war over with. Any measure that would assure a quick end to the conflict would be worth a try.

Wiping out a few Confederate leaders to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens would appear "humane" to me if I were placed in that position. I also don't think Lincoln achieved sainthood until April 15, 1865 -- and I really don't mean that as harsh as it sounds. I say that because I consider Lincoln a supreme example of a pragmatist.

[Anita]

Perhaps more shall be revealed!

[Eva Elisabeth]

I agree with Laurie on her last post.

As much as I believe Lincoln was pro-human when it came to private, single fates in "civilian life", I think he distinguished between this and the "necessities of warfare" in order to win.
He was commander-in-chief in a war, and ordering that enemies shall be killed was part of (t)his job. He sent over 2,213,000 soldiers into battles, 620,000 of whom lost their lives. What are, compared to this, the lives of a few Confederate leaders when this "measure" would bring the war to an end and spare the lives of hundreds or thousands of further victims?

Also I believe at that point in time he was a too experienced leader to have had no knowledge (if) this was going on. IMO he would have been a quite poor chief if he hadn't, and also if there was any evidence to be found.