"Our One Common Country" author talk in Stratford, CT

[LincolnToddFan]

(08-31-2014 09:07 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Just in case someone is interested in, here are:

1. The cordial letter she wrote to Davis in 1871 instructing him to share all bonds half/half with Robert instead of 2/3 : 1/3
2. The article in the Springfield Journal from which she learned Robert had so far received more than she from Davis, and
3. A detailed inventory of A. L.'s estate filed by Davis (respectively a clerk) on Nov.29, 1866.

Sorry I only took photos instead of typing all this...

1.

2.

3.

THANK YOU EVA!!

[RJNorton]

(08-31-2014 08:25 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Presumably, Mary Todd Lincoln would have responded by mail to Eliza Quincy within a month. Does anyone have access to a copy of such a letter written by Mary Todd Lincoln?

Hi David. I checked Mary Todd Lincoln: Her Life and Letters by Justin G. Turner and Linda Levitt Turner. I could not find a response to Eliza Quincy. So I am guessing she didn't reply (seems less likely IMO) or her letter is lost to history (seems more likely IMO).

[Eva Elisabeth]

(09-01-2014 04:53 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  ...or her letter is lost to history (seems more likely IMO).

My opinion, too! I find it anyway amazing so many of Mary's letters survived. I'd like to throw in another argument in favor of Mary: the way she reacted to one Confederate brother's death (she refused to weep, called him an enemy against hers and the Union cause etc., could post the quote tonight).

[LincolnToddFan]

Eva E., I know the quote well, almost by heart...."I hope they are all dead...they would hang my husband and me beside him...when they chose against him, they chose against me" or something like that. Mary called her husband and the Union cause "the dearest of all things to us".

Typically, Michael Burlingame was critical of her comments. In his "Life" Volume II he labels her attitude shocking and "cold". But can anyone imagine with what glee he would tear into her if letters were discovered where she grieves over her lost Confederate kin, and expresses resentment at her husband for causing their deaths? Burlingame expounds at length on MTL's selfishness and strongly implies that she might have been unfaithful to AL. But regarding this admittedly over-exaggerated expression of distaste for her Confederate relatives, he rips her. He also doesn't bother to address the fact that she broke all contact with her favorite sister Emilie Todd Helm solely because Helm attacked her husband in a letter.

Simply unbelievable!

Anyway, I think Mary only said those things publically about her brothers for effect. She knew that the newspapers and Washington gossip were openly questioning her loyalty, and accusing her of being a spy.

[David Lockmiller]

(09-01-2014 04:53 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(08-31-2014 08:25 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Presumably, Mary Todd Lincoln would have responded by mail to Eliza Quincy within a month. Does anyone have access to a copy of such a letter written by Mary Todd Lincoln?

Hi David. I checked Mary Todd Lincoln: Her Life and Letters by Justin G. Turner and Linda Levitt Turner. I could not find a response to Eliza Quincy. So I am guessing she didn't reply (seems less likely IMO) or her letter is lost to history (seems more likely IMO).

From the paragraph that Professor Guelzo wrote regarding the two Emancipation Proclamation celebrations, I thought Mrs. Quincy had attended the mostly black celebration. But based on the actual letter, shown transcribed below, it is obvious that she attended the Music Hall celebration.

Eliza S. Quincy to Mary Todd Lincoln, Friday, January 02, 1863

Celebration of Emancipation Proclamation in Boston

My dear Madam

I enclose the Programme of the celebration of the President's Proclamation at the Boston Music Hall, -- yesterday, -- with M. S. notes of the incidents which occurred, during the performance.

In full confidence of the steadiness of the President's purpose, -- the arrangements were all made several weeks ago. (emphasis added)

But it was not until the vast audience had assembled and the performances had commenced that the news arrived that the Proclamation was actually on the wires of the telegraph.

The reception of this intelligence was worthy of "the Declaration of Emancipation",! -- which must rank in future with that of Independence, -- & the 1st of January 1863, -- with the 4th of July 1776.

It was a sublime moment, -- the thought of the millions upon millions of human beings whose happiness was to be affected & freedom secured by the words of President Lincoln, was almost overwhelming.

To us also the remembrance of many friends who had worked & labored in this cause, for many years, but who had departed without the accomplishing of those hopes, which we had lived to witness was very affecting.

It was a day & an occasion never to be forgotten.-- I wish you & the President could have enjoyed it with us, here.

On our return home we found my father with your welcome packet in his hand.-- For that it his privilege to thank you.-- With our best respects to the President & our best wishes for 1863, -- for him & for yourself

I am very sincerely Yrs
Eliza S. Quincy.

5 Park St Boston
January 2, 1863.

[Note 1 Eliza S. Quincy was the wife of Josiah Quincy.]

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

The mystery remains a mystery. Were the words of Mrs. Florence W. Stanley truthful?

[RJNorton]

(09-01-2014 01:25 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  [Note 1 Eliza S. Quincy was the wife of Josiah Quincy.]

Mary Lincoln once mentioned him in a message to Charles Sumner. On December 30th, 1862, Mary sent this note to Sumner:

"Mrs. Lincoln presents her compliments to the Hon. Mr. Sumner, & begs leave to ask him, if he acquainted with the address, of the venerable Mr. Josiah Quincy, as Mrs. L. is about sending an excellent photograph of the President to him, and is anxious that it shall reach him, by the 1st of Jan. - "

[Eva Elisabeth]

(09-01-2014 11:59 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Eva E., I know the quote well, almost by heart...."I hope they are all dead...they would hang my husband and me beside him...when they chose against him, they chose against me" or something like that. Mary called her husband and the Union cause "the dearest of all things to us".

In 1862, she said to Elizabeth Keckley: "[Alexander] made his choice long ago...He has been fighting against us; and since he chose to be our deadly enemy, I see no reason why I should bitterly mourn his death." Keckley also told Mary "had no sympathy for the South", quoting her: They would hang my husband tomorrow if it was in their power, and perhaps gibbet me with him. How then can I sympathize with a people at war with me and mine?" (And "for this" she was accused to be a Confederant sympathizer...)
Also as a kid she wanted to help her black nurse Sally aiding runaway slaves.

---

(09-01-2014 11:59 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Anyway, I think Mary only said those things publically about her brothers for effect. She knew that the newspapers and Washington gossip were openly questioning her loyalty, and accusing her of being a spy.

I'm not sure - so you think she actually grieved about a brother's death and stated the very opposite for good publicity?

[David Lockmiller]

(09-01-2014 01:41 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 01:25 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  [Note 1 Eliza S. Quincy was the wife of Josiah Quincy.]

Mary Lincoln once mentioned him in a message to Charles Sumner. On December 30th, 1862, Mary sent this note to Sumner:

"Mrs. Lincoln presents her compliments to the Hon. Mr. Sumner, & begs leave to ask him, if he acquainted with the address, of the venerable Mr. Josiah Quincy, as Mrs. L. is about sending an excellent photograph of the President to him, and is anxious that it shall reach him, by the 1st of Jan. - "

From the last line of the Eliza Quincy letter at my post #140 above:

"On our return home we found my father with your welcome packet in his hand.-- For that it his privilege to thank you.-- With our best respects to the President & our best wishes for 1863, -- for him & for yourself"

The postal service of the time seemed to be extremely efficient. How long would a first class letter take now to get from Washington DC to Boston MA?

[Gene C]

(09-02-2014 08:53 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I'm not sure - so you think she actually grieved about a brother's death and stated the very opposite for good publicity?

IMO, I think she grieved for her brother, but her loyalties were with Lincoln. As for her statement, I'm not sure if she made it for the publicity, but it was certainly a statement the times demanded. To say nothing would have been worse. No question in my mind that she was loyal to the North, but especially to Mr. Lincoln. Now why she put up with Sumner and she seemed to be good friends with him, I haven't quite figured out, unless she thought she could have some influence on him.

[LincolnToddFan]

(09-02-2014 08:53 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 11:59 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Eva E., I know the quote well, almost by heart...."I hope they are all dead...they would hang my husband and me beside him...when they chose against him, they chose against me" or something like that. Mary called her husband and the Union cause "the dearest of all things to us".

In 1862, she said to Elizabeth Keckley: "[Alexander] made his choice long ago...He has been fighting against us; and since he chose to be our deadly enemy, I see no reason why I should bitterly mourn his death." Keckley also told Mary "had no sympathy for the South", quoting her: They would hang my husband tomorrow if it was in their power, and perhaps gibbet me with him. How then can I sympathize with a people at war with me and mine?" (And "for this" she was accused to be a Confederant sympathizer...)
Also as a kid she wanted to help her black nurse Sally aiding runaway slaves.

---

(09-01-2014 11:59 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Anyway, I think Mary only said those things publically about her brothers for effect. She knew that the newspapers and Washington gossip were openly questioning her loyalty, and accusing her of being a spy.

I'm not sure - so you think she actually grieved about a brother's death and stated the very opposite for good publicity?

No, I think she grieved for her relatives but couldn't say as much publically because the Northern press and public were circling like sharks, watching for any sign of disloyalty. The poor woman wouldn't have been human if she didn't feel something...these were her flesh and blood. When Alec Todd died on the battlefield she wept "Oh little Alec...why had you to die?" and later told her half-sister Emilie Todd Helm that Willie visited her at night "and twice he has come with our brother Alec, and is with him most of the time. You cannot dream of the comfort this gives me"(The Lincolns: Portrait of a Marriage" auth. Daniel Mark Epstein pg#441 sourced to Katherine Helm's "Mary, Wife of Lincoln:Containing the Recollections of Mary Lincoln's Sister Emilie")

"...The deaths of Sam and Alexander had come hard on the heels of Willie's passing and had affected Mary deeply, especially that of 'Little Alec' but she could hardly make a display of her grief. Even in private she indicated that something of a shell had formed over her heart. A friend visiting her in early 1862 had been astonished to hear her say that she hoped all her brothers fighting for the Confederacy would either be captured or killed. When the friend protested, she said grimly and truthfully, 'They would kill my husband if they could, and destroy our Government-the dearest of all things to us'.(Mary Todd Lincoln: Her Life and Letters, auth. Leavitt&Turner pg#155 source papers of Elizabeth Blair Lee)

When his Confederate brother-in-law Benjamin Hardin Helm(Emilie's husband) was killed at Chickamauga Lincoln wept, and said he felt like the biblical David grieving over Absalom(The House of Abraham: Lincoln & the Todds, A Family Divided by Civil War. auth. Stephen Berry, source Katherine Helm papers)

These were the true, private feelings of the Lincolns who, just like many Americans during the Civil War, had family members fighting on both sides. Their primary loyalty was to the Union cause, but that didn't mean they didn't feel pain for their lost Confederate kin.

[LincolnToddFan]

(09-02-2014 09:40 AM)Gene C Wrote:  

(09-02-2014 08:53 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I'm not sure - so you think she actually grieved about a brother's death and stated the very opposite for good publicity?

IMO, I think she grieved for her brother, but her loyalties were with Lincoln. As for her statement, I'm not sure if she made it for the publicity, but it was certainly a statement the times demanded. To say nothing would have been worse. No question in my mind that she was loyal to the North, but especially to Mr. Lincoln. Now why she put up with Sumner and she seemed to be good friends with him, I haven't quite figured out, unless she thought she could have some influence on him.

Hi Gene,

Charles Sumner was a bit of a humorless prig, but he was also a highly principled, brilliant, cultured man. He spoke at least four or five languages, was well traveled, hung out with European aristocrats, was well versed in poetry, literature, the classics...in other words he was just the type of guy the socially insecure Mary Todd Lincoln wanted around. She was extremely flattered by his attention and became a kind of Sumner groupie. He was a hard core, unflinching abolitionist and some people believe he is the one who "converted" Mary to the cause. It is through Sumner that Mary met Jacques, Marquis de Chambrun.

Toward the end of Lincoln's life, his relationship with Sumner came under strain because Sumner disapproved of what he felt was AL's leniency toward the leaders of the Confederate rebellion. He also wanted more forceful, progressive Executive action on behalf of the freedmen. But he was by the dying president's side at the Petersen House, holding his hand and weeping profusely.

He was also one of the few people who kept up a friendship with Mary after AL's death, when he had nothing to gain from it. It's almost 100% down to Sumner's relentless battling on her behalf on the floor of the Senate that she was finally awarded a pension in her widowhood. He was a true friend to her.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Sumner is IMO another fascinating person. Has anyone read D. Donald's Sumner biography (a feedback would be most appreciated)? Wasn't Sumner not also one of the few for whom Abraham Lincoln would have put his feet off the table?

---

Thanks, Gene and Toia, for your replies to my question. I was sure I read somewhere that she hardly knew him, also his mother was her stepmother whom she disliked.

[LincolnToddFan]

Hi Eva,

I've heard about the Donald biography but I've never read it. David Donald started off NOT a Sumner fan. He found him self-righteous, humorless and uncompromising, as many people did. He later softened his attitude toward him, however.