https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/ Sat, 11 Apr 2026 19:34:42 +0000 MyBB https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5106.html Wed, 17 Sep 2025 15:56:06 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5106.html
"AN ARCHEOLOGICAL OVERVIEW AND
ASSESSMENT OF LINCOLN BOYHOOD NATIONAL
MEMORIAL, SPENCER COUNTY, INDIANA"

This seems to have been prepared for the National Park Service in 1997

Not sure how I found this, but I found sections of it very interesting.
For those of you interested in trash dump and privies, you will find p 30 of particular interest.

Other interesting topics include
The Farm After the Lincolns
The Nancy Hanks Cemetery
The History of Lincoln City
Reference for Further Studies
Cabin Architecture
Archeology at the Lincoln Boyhood Memorial
Misc. Photos and Maps

https://npshistory.com/publications/libo/aoa.pdf

If you are interested in Lincoln's early life in Indiana, you will find this informative with information not found in most history books.]]>
"AN ARCHEOLOGICAL OVERVIEW AND
ASSESSMENT OF LINCOLN BOYHOOD NATIONAL
MEMORIAL, SPENCER COUNTY, INDIANA"

This seems to have been prepared for the National Park Service in 1997

Not sure how I found this, but I found sections of it very interesting.
For those of you interested in trash dump and privies, you will find p 30 of particular interest.

Other interesting topics include
The Farm After the Lincolns
The Nancy Hanks Cemetery
The History of Lincoln City
Reference for Further Studies
Cabin Architecture
Archeology at the Lincoln Boyhood Memorial
Misc. Photos and Maps

https://npshistory.com/publications/libo/aoa.pdf

If you are interested in Lincoln's early life in Indiana, you will find this informative with information not found in most history books.]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5101.html Mon, 15 Sep 2025 11:16:06 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5101.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WrpAZi3AuI

(relevant section begins at 2:41 point)

The whole video is about 40 minutes long but this section is only a couple of minutes long.

Does anyone have any idea what she's talking about?

Steve Whitlock was involved in the Genetic Lincoln group, but sadly he's passed and I can't ask him him about this. Here's a link to her Wikipedia page, so she's not a crank peddling the Abraham Enloe nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleen_M._Fitzpatrick

Abraham Lincoln has one of the more mysterious family trees of any of the presidents - his maternal grandfather is unknown and his paternal grandmother (Thomas Lincoln's mother) is only known by her first name, Bathsheba, without a known maiden name or family. (Some people have claimed that her maiden last name was Herring, but as of yet, there's no evidence for that.) That's 50% unknown ancestry with a potential for surprises. But I've never heard of any DNA test finding African ancestry.]]>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WrpAZi3AuI

(relevant section begins at 2:41 point)

The whole video is about 40 minutes long but this section is only a couple of minutes long.

Does anyone have any idea what she's talking about?

Steve Whitlock was involved in the Genetic Lincoln group, but sadly he's passed and I can't ask him him about this. Here's a link to her Wikipedia page, so she's not a crank peddling the Abraham Enloe nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleen_M._Fitzpatrick

Abraham Lincoln has one of the more mysterious family trees of any of the presidents - his maternal grandfather is unknown and his paternal grandmother (Thomas Lincoln's mother) is only known by her first name, Bathsheba, without a known maiden name or family. (Some people have claimed that her maiden last name was Herring, but as of yet, there's no evidence for that.) That's 50% unknown ancestry with a potential for surprises. But I've never heard of any DNA test finding African ancestry.]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5096.html Wed, 27 Aug 2025 12:24:14 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5096.html After Lincoln's first election as president, Isaac Cogdal, a friend of Lincoln's, ventured to ask whether it was true that Lincoln had fallen in love with Ann. Lincoln is said to have replied:

It is true—true indeed I did. I loved the woman dearly and soundly: she was a handsome girl—would have made a good, loving wife.... I did honestly and truly love the girl and think often—often of her now
From
Donald, David Herbert (1995). Lincoln. New York: Touchstone. ISBN 0-684-80846-3.
pp.57-58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Rutledge {reference only}]]> After Lincoln's first election as president, Isaac Cogdal, a friend of Lincoln's, ventured to ask whether it was true that Lincoln had fallen in love with Ann. Lincoln is said to have replied:

It is true—true indeed I did. I loved the woman dearly and soundly: she was a handsome girl—would have made a good, loving wife.... I did honestly and truly love the girl and think often—often of her now
From
Donald, David Herbert (1995). Lincoln. New York: Touchstone. ISBN 0-684-80846-3.
pp.57-58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Rutledge {reference only}]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5039.html Sat, 08 Mar 2025 18:01:10 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5039.html
William Herndon wrote in the preface of Herndon's Lincoln: The True Story of a Great Life - ( https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex...01.05.0025 )
"In determining Lincoln's title to greatness we must not only keep in mind the times in which he lived, but we must, to a certain extent, measure him with other men. Many of our great men and our statesmen, it is true, have been self-made, rising gradually through struggles to the topmost round of the ladder; but Lincoln rose from a lower depth than any of them — from a stagnant, putrid pool, like the gas which, set on fire by its own energy and self-combustible nature, rises in jets, blazing, clear, and bright. I should be remiss in my duty if I did not throw the light on this part of the picture, so [x] that the world may realize what marvellous contrast one phase of his life presents to another."

According to the same book above, in chapter 2,
The head of the household now set resolutely to work to build a shelter for his family.
In this forbidding structure, when completed, was fourteen feet square, and was built of small unhewn logs. In the language of the day, it was called a “half-faced camp,” being enclosed on all sides but one. It had neither floor, door, nor windows. In this forbidding hovel these doughty emigrants braved the exposure of the varying seasons for an entire year.

The article below gives us a little more information regarding the source and story of the half-faced camp.
The author of this article - Lincoln Lore, December 11, 1939 - reaches this conclusion at the end of his article,
"The story of that half-faced camp is but another one of Herndon's gross exaggerations.

You'll just have to read this to find out why
https://www.friendsofthelincolncollectio...-11_01.pdf

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++]]>
William Herndon wrote in the preface of Herndon's Lincoln: The True Story of a Great Life - ( https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex...01.05.0025 )
"In determining Lincoln's title to greatness we must not only keep in mind the times in which he lived, but we must, to a certain extent, measure him with other men. Many of our great men and our statesmen, it is true, have been self-made, rising gradually through struggles to the topmost round of the ladder; but Lincoln rose from a lower depth than any of them — from a stagnant, putrid pool, like the gas which, set on fire by its own energy and self-combustible nature, rises in jets, blazing, clear, and bright. I should be remiss in my duty if I did not throw the light on this part of the picture, so [x] that the world may realize what marvellous contrast one phase of his life presents to another."

According to the same book above, in chapter 2,
The head of the household now set resolutely to work to build a shelter for his family.
In this forbidding structure, when completed, was fourteen feet square, and was built of small unhewn logs. In the language of the day, it was called a “half-faced camp,” being enclosed on all sides but one. It had neither floor, door, nor windows. In this forbidding hovel these doughty emigrants braved the exposure of the varying seasons for an entire year.

The article below gives us a little more information regarding the source and story of the half-faced camp.
The author of this article - Lincoln Lore, December 11, 1939 - reaches this conclusion at the end of his article,
"The story of that half-faced camp is but another one of Herndon's gross exaggerations.

You'll just have to read this to find out why
https://www.friendsofthelincolncollectio...-11_01.pdf

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5031.html Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:56:39 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5031.html
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/interior_l...linois.htm]]>
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/interior_l...linois.htm]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5022.html Tue, 04 Feb 2025 12:22:51 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5022.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcIEaqT1qU

Unfortunately, Sondra Hicks got it wrong. If you read the comments to the video, several of the viewers believe her story.

How do I know she got it wrong?
It's a long story that isn't new. She gives you some clues in her video.
I'll give you some time to research it for yourself if you want to.
Over the next few days I'll share with you what I found out.

Please feel free to add your comments. It's a shame how this kind of false history gets spread. We've seen it before, even by some of the former posters on this site.
Stay tuned in, don't worry. We'll sort this out.]]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcIEaqT1qU

Unfortunately, Sondra Hicks got it wrong. If you read the comments to the video, several of the viewers believe her story.

How do I know she got it wrong?
It's a long story that isn't new. She gives you some clues in her video.
I'll give you some time to research it for yourself if you want to.
Over the next few days I'll share with you what I found out.

Please feel free to add your comments. It's a shame how this kind of false history gets spread. We've seen it before, even by some of the former posters on this site.
Stay tuned in, don't worry. We'll sort this out.]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5018.html Tue, 07 Jan 2025 15:44:51 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-5018.html
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UGxHpovIPEs

your thoughts ?]]>
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UGxHpovIPEs

your thoughts ?]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4972.html Mon, 24 Jun 2024 21:03:22 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4972.html https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4957.html Mon, 22 Apr 2024 19:59:02 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4957.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQnl5TY2eh8]]>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQnl5TY2eh8]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4956.html Fri, 19 Apr 2024 23:26:59 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4956.html
In a letter dated October 19, 1960, Mr. Lincoln wrote back to Grace. "Having never worn any, do you not think that people would call it a piece of silly affection if I were to begin it now?" he asked. Yet, by the following January, the recently elected present was seen to have a beard growing in. The next month, in February 1861 a bearded President Lincoln made a stop in Westfield and met Grace Bedell in person.

As he continued to make his way by train to Washington, D.C., his facial hair filled in, and by the time of his March 1861 inauguration, he was the first United States President with a full beard.

I read this in History Facts and it was such an adorable story I just had to bring it here. For those of you who already know this story, I hope you will forgive me. I had never heard the story and thought that I would share it.]]>
In a letter dated October 19, 1960, Mr. Lincoln wrote back to Grace. "Having never worn any, do you not think that people would call it a piece of silly affection if I were to begin it now?" he asked. Yet, by the following January, the recently elected present was seen to have a beard growing in. The next month, in February 1861 a bearded President Lincoln made a stop in Westfield and met Grace Bedell in person.

As he continued to make his way by train to Washington, D.C., his facial hair filled in, and by the time of his March 1861 inauguration, he was the first United States President with a full beard.

I read this in History Facts and it was such an adorable story I just had to bring it here. For those of you who already know this story, I hope you will forgive me. I had never heard the story and thought that I would share it.]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4946.html Tue, 02 Apr 2024 02:27:27 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4946.html The Huntress, Washington, D.C. journalist Anne Royall included pen-portraits of new members of Congress, including Stephen Douglas, whom she described as "rather under middle height,” before assuring her readers, “In his manners, Judge Douglass [sic] is polite, and urbane, and to crown the whole, he is in the market. Ladies look out!”

Does anyone know if she met Congressman Lincoln? I tend to think not, as her biographer Bessie Rowland James doesn't mention it. (She did meet Jefferson Davis, whose manners she described as "extremely winning.")]]> The Huntress, Washington, D.C. journalist Anne Royall included pen-portraits of new members of Congress, including Stephen Douglas, whom she described as "rather under middle height,” before assuring her readers, “In his manners, Judge Douglass [sic] is polite, and urbane, and to crown the whole, he is in the market. Ladies look out!”

Does anyone know if she met Congressman Lincoln? I tend to think not, as her biographer Bessie Rowland James doesn't mention it. (She did meet Jefferson Davis, whose manners she described as "extremely winning.")]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4904.html Thu, 28 Dec 2023 17:34:34 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4904.html
I had always assumed that Lincoln had been the winner and thus, earned Jack’s respect. But in Joe DiCola’s wonderful book on New Salem that I just recently finished reading, he included a letter from Lynn McNulty Greene which implies that Jack brought Lincoln down. Is there an answer as to who actually won the wrestling match?]]>
I had always assumed that Lincoln had been the winner and thus, earned Jack’s respect. But in Joe DiCola’s wonderful book on New Salem that I just recently finished reading, he included a letter from Lynn McNulty Greene which implies that Jack brought Lincoln down. Is there an answer as to who actually won the wrestling match?]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4885.html Mon, 16 Oct 2023 16:37:30 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4885.html
" 'Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.' At the hazard of being thought one of the fools of this quotation, I meet that argument — I rush in — I take that bull by the horns. I trust I understand and truly estimate the right of self government. My faith in the proposition that each [person] should do precisely as [they] please with all which is exclusively [their] own lies at the foundation of the sense of justice there is in me. I extend the principle to communities... as well as to individuals. I so extend it because it is politically wise, as well as naturally just; politically wise in saving us from broils about matters which do not concern us. Here, or at Washington, I would not trouble myself with the oyster laws of Virginia, or the cranberry laws of Indiana. The doctrine of self-government is right — absolutely and eternally right — but it has no just application as here attempted. ... When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs [another], that is more than self-government — that is despotism. ... [My] ancient faith teaches me that 'all men are created equal,'..."

Denton Snider is quoted (in the Illinois Daily Journal?):
"Lincoln shows his hatred of slavery, in his Peoria speech, and pricks many a sophistical bubble cleverly blown by Douglas for vindicating himself before the people. Upon Lincoln has dawned a bright auroral promise of a new career at the age of forty-five years, in the very flowering of his highest talent. And let it not be forgotten! That adversary and antitype of his, so long triumphant over him, he can now clutch with the grip of Ophiuchus and hale the violator of what he deems the right before the judgment-seat of the Folk-Soul, Yea of the Ages."]]>
" 'Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.' At the hazard of being thought one of the fools of this quotation, I meet that argument — I rush in — I take that bull by the horns. I trust I understand and truly estimate the right of self government. My faith in the proposition that each [person] should do precisely as [they] please with all which is exclusively [their] own lies at the foundation of the sense of justice there is in me. I extend the principle to communities... as well as to individuals. I so extend it because it is politically wise, as well as naturally just; politically wise in saving us from broils about matters which do not concern us. Here, or at Washington, I would not trouble myself with the oyster laws of Virginia, or the cranberry laws of Indiana. The doctrine of self-government is right — absolutely and eternally right — but it has no just application as here attempted. ... When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs [another], that is more than self-government — that is despotism. ... [My] ancient faith teaches me that 'all men are created equal,'..."

Denton Snider is quoted (in the Illinois Daily Journal?):
"Lincoln shows his hatred of slavery, in his Peoria speech, and pricks many a sophistical bubble cleverly blown by Douglas for vindicating himself before the people. Upon Lincoln has dawned a bright auroral promise of a new career at the age of forty-five years, in the very flowering of his highest talent. And let it not be forgotten! That adversary and antitype of his, so long triumphant over him, he can now clutch with the grip of Ophiuchus and hale the violator of what he deems the right before the judgment-seat of the Folk-Soul, Yea of the Ages."]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4871.html Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:22:58 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4871.html
This from the Internet Archive. The Archives gives this stories source as McClure's, November 1922
I had to enlarge the print to read it.

https://archive.org/details/lincolnsfirs...ew=theater]]>
This from the Internet Archive. The Archives gives this stories source as McClure's, November 1922
I had to enlarge the print to read it.

https://archive.org/details/lincolnsfirs...ew=theater]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4857.html Tue, 05 Sep 2023 15:44:26 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4857.html The Political Life of Abraham Lincoln, Volume II, 1849-1856
By Sidney Blumenthal

Douglas’s crowning, if ultimately catastrophic, achievement was the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, which forms the central armature of Blumenthal’s story. Beneath his expedient rhetoric, Douglas’s main goal may have been to line the pockets of his speculator friends, who stood to reap immense profits from the development of a transcontinental railroad. Douglas could only secure the deal with the support of the South, by agreeing to open part of the Nebraska Territory, and implicitly more of the West, to slavery. Brilliant though he was as a legislative strategist, Douglas failed to grasp the depth of outrage the act would spark across the North. Even racist whites did not want to compete for work with slaves. Irreconcilable fissures over slavery erupted in both the Democratic Party and among Lincoln’s Whigs.

According to one Illinois colleague, Lincoln even feared “that the tendency of the times was to make slavery universal, and that Illinois ... would soon legalize slavery there.”]]> The Political Life of Abraham Lincoln, Volume II, 1849-1856
By Sidney Blumenthal

Douglas’s crowning, if ultimately catastrophic, achievement was the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, which forms the central armature of Blumenthal’s story. Beneath his expedient rhetoric, Douglas’s main goal may have been to line the pockets of his speculator friends, who stood to reap immense profits from the development of a transcontinental railroad. Douglas could only secure the deal with the support of the South, by agreeing to open part of the Nebraska Territory, and implicitly more of the West, to slavery. Brilliant though he was as a legislative strategist, Douglas failed to grasp the depth of outrage the act would spark across the North. Even racist whites did not want to compete for work with slaves. Irreconcilable fissures over slavery erupted in both the Democratic Party and among Lincoln’s Whigs.

According to one Illinois colleague, Lincoln even feared “that the tendency of the times was to make slavery universal, and that Illinois ... would soon legalize slavery there.”]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4855.html Mon, 28 Aug 2023 19:09:20 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4855.html
Anyone ever heard of a housekeeper at the Lincoln home in Springfield named Clara Louisa Farley aka Louisa Klink?

]]>
Anyone ever heard of a housekeeper at the Lincoln home in Springfield named Clara Louisa Farley aka Louisa Klink?

]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4837.html Thu, 27 Jul 2023 01:26:49 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4837.html
These letters were a satirical, insulting, somewhat anonymous letters signed "Rebecca"
The letters attacked a proclamation published and signed by the Governor, State Trasurer and Auditor James Shields.
With Shields becoming the focus of the letters.

https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/Bl...blog-post/

These letters were the foundation of a challenge resulting in a duel between James Shields and Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln scholars over the years have disagreed regarding Lincoln's involvement in the letters. Did he write all of them, only one or two, or none at all.
And what about the duel. There were several different versions of what happened. Except for the accounts published in the Sangamo Journal by Dr. Merryman (Lincoln's friend) and General Whiteside (James Shield's friend), there is no real evidence of what took place. And these two gentlemen were not the most reliable reporters.

This article from "Lincoln Lore" dated September 21, 1942 fills in some of the details. https://www.friendsofthelincolncollectio...-21_01.pdf

The last sentence of the article adds further speculation to contributing factors of this story.
What part did Mary Lincoln play in this drama?

Your thoughts?]]>
These letters were a satirical, insulting, somewhat anonymous letters signed "Rebecca"
The letters attacked a proclamation published and signed by the Governor, State Trasurer and Auditor James Shields.
With Shields becoming the focus of the letters.

https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/Bl...blog-post/

These letters were the foundation of a challenge resulting in a duel between James Shields and Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln scholars over the years have disagreed regarding Lincoln's involvement in the letters. Did he write all of them, only one or two, or none at all.
And what about the duel. There were several different versions of what happened. Except for the accounts published in the Sangamo Journal by Dr. Merryman (Lincoln's friend) and General Whiteside (James Shield's friend), there is no real evidence of what took place. And these two gentlemen were not the most reliable reporters.

This article from "Lincoln Lore" dated September 21, 1942 fills in some of the details. https://www.friendsofthelincolncollectio...-21_01.pdf

The last sentence of the article adds further speculation to contributing factors of this story.
What part did Mary Lincoln play in this drama?

Your thoughts?]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4816.html Tue, 06 Jun 2023 17:31:58 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4816.html https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4791.html Sat, 22 Apr 2023 22:01:03 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4791.html
“The assertion that all men are created equal was of no practical use in effecting our separation from Great Britain,” observed none other than Abraham Lincoln, “and it was placed in the Declaration, not for that, but for future use.”


The following is what Lincoln stated in a single paragraph quotation on the subject of “the meaning and objects of that part of the Declaration of Independence which declares that ‘all men are created equal.’” (Speech at Springfield, Illinois - June 26, 1857):

Chief Justice Taney, in his opinion in the Dred Scott case, admits that the language of the Declaration is broad enough to include the whole human family, but he and Judge Douglas argue that the authors of that instrument did not intend to include negroes, by the fact that they did not at once, actually place them on an equality with the whites. Now this grave argument comes to just nothing at all, by the other fact, that they did not at once, or ever afterwards, actually place all white people on an equality with one or another. And this is the staple argument of both the Chief Justice and the Senator, for doing this obvious violence to the plain unmistakable language of the Declaration. I think the authors of that notable instrument intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects. They did not mean to say all were equal in color, size, intellect, moral developments, or social capacity. They defined with tolerable distinctness, in what respects they did consider all men crated equal – equal in ‘certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.’ This they said, and this meant. They did not mean to assert the obvious untruth, that all were then actually enjoying that equality, nor yet, that they were about to confer it immediately upon them. In fact they had no power to confer such a boon. They meant simply to declare the right, so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast circumstances should permit. They meant to set up a standard maxim for free society, which should be familiar to all, and revered by all; constantly looked to, constantly labored for, and even though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated, and thereby constantly spreading and deepening its influence, and augmenting the happiness and value of life to all people of all colors everywhere. The assertion that ‘all men are created equal’ was of no practical use in effecting our separation from Great Britain; and it was placed in the Declaration, not for that, but for future use. Its authors meant it to be, thank God, it is now proving itself, a stumbling block to those who in after times might seek to turn a free people back into the hateful paths of despotism. They knew the proneness of prosperity to breed tyrants, and they meant when such should re-appear in this fair land and commence their vocation they should find left for them at least one hard nut to crack.

I have now briefly expressed my view of the meaning and objects of that part of the Declaration of Independence which declares that ‘all men are created equal.’



In my opinion, the history of President Abraham Lincoln (before and during the American Civil War) should have been [and should be now] thoroughly taught in every high school American History or Civics class throughout this democracy. This supposition is based on the proven theory that “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

It seems to me that the United States is at another genuine dividing time in history and with a population that possesses little or no detailed knowledge of the causes of divisions that led to the American Civil War.]]>
“The assertion that all men are created equal was of no practical use in effecting our separation from Great Britain,” observed none other than Abraham Lincoln, “and it was placed in the Declaration, not for that, but for future use.”


The following is what Lincoln stated in a single paragraph quotation on the subject of “the meaning and objects of that part of the Declaration of Independence which declares that ‘all men are created equal.’” (Speech at Springfield, Illinois - June 26, 1857):

Chief Justice Taney, in his opinion in the Dred Scott case, admits that the language of the Declaration is broad enough to include the whole human family, but he and Judge Douglas argue that the authors of that instrument did not intend to include negroes, by the fact that they did not at once, actually place them on an equality with the whites. Now this grave argument comes to just nothing at all, by the other fact, that they did not at once, or ever afterwards, actually place all white people on an equality with one or another. And this is the staple argument of both the Chief Justice and the Senator, for doing this obvious violence to the plain unmistakable language of the Declaration. I think the authors of that notable instrument intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects. They did not mean to say all were equal in color, size, intellect, moral developments, or social capacity. They defined with tolerable distinctness, in what respects they did consider all men crated equal – equal in ‘certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.’ This they said, and this meant. They did not mean to assert the obvious untruth, that all were then actually enjoying that equality, nor yet, that they were about to confer it immediately upon them. In fact they had no power to confer such a boon. They meant simply to declare the right, so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast circumstances should permit. They meant to set up a standard maxim for free society, which should be familiar to all, and revered by all; constantly looked to, constantly labored for, and even though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated, and thereby constantly spreading and deepening its influence, and augmenting the happiness and value of life to all people of all colors everywhere. The assertion that ‘all men are created equal’ was of no practical use in effecting our separation from Great Britain; and it was placed in the Declaration, not for that, but for future use. Its authors meant it to be, thank God, it is now proving itself, a stumbling block to those who in after times might seek to turn a free people back into the hateful paths of despotism. They knew the proneness of prosperity to breed tyrants, and they meant when such should re-appear in this fair land and commence their vocation they should find left for them at least one hard nut to crack.

I have now briefly expressed my view of the meaning and objects of that part of the Declaration of Independence which declares that ‘all men are created equal.’



In my opinion, the history of President Abraham Lincoln (before and during the American Civil War) should have been [and should be now] thoroughly taught in every high school American History or Civics class throughout this democracy. This supposition is based on the proven theory that “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

It seems to me that the United States is at another genuine dividing time in history and with a population that possesses little or no detailed knowledge of the causes of divisions that led to the American Civil War.]]> https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4789.html Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:03:30 +0000 https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-4789.html
Sir: Your favour of yesterday was handed me by Mr. Dale. In relation to the Revenue law, I think there is something [to] be feared from the argument you suggest, though I hope the danger is not as you apprehend. The passage of a Revenue law at this session, is right within itself; and I never despair of sustaining myself before the people upon any measure that will stand a full investigation. I presume I hardly need enter into an argument to prove to you, that our old revenue system, raising, as it did, all the state revenue from non-resident lands, and those lands rapidly decreasing, by passing into the hands of resident owners, whiles the wants of the Treasury were increasing with the increase of population, could not longer continue to answer the purpose of it's creation. That proposition is little less than self-evident.

The only question is as to sustaining the change before the people. I believe it can be sustained, because it does not increase the tax upon the "many poor'' but upon the "wealthy few'' by taxing the land that is worth $50 or $100 per acre, in proportion to its value, insted of, as heretofore, no more than that which was worth but $5 per acre. This valuable land, as is well known, belongs, not to the poor, but to the wealthy citizen.

On the other hand, the wealthy can not justly complain, because the change is equitable within itself, and also a sine qua non to a compliance with the Constitution. If, however, the wealthy should, regardless of the justness of the complaint, as men often are, when interest is involved in the question, complain of the change, it is still to be remembered, that they are not sufficiently numerous to carry the elections.

Verry Respectfully
A. LINCOLN

(Yes, at the time, Lincoln spelled the word "very" with two r's. )

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 1. Pages 147-148.
Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865.]]>
Sir: Your favour of yesterday was handed me by Mr. Dale. In relation to the Revenue law, I think there is something [to] be feared from the argument you suggest, though I hope the danger is not as you apprehend. The passage of a Revenue law at this session, is right within itself; and I never despair of sustaining myself before the people upon any measure that will stand a full investigation. I presume I hardly need enter into an argument to prove to you, that our old revenue system, raising, as it did, all the state revenue from non-resident lands, and those lands rapidly decreasing, by passing into the hands of resident owners, whiles the wants of the Treasury were increasing with the increase of population, could not longer continue to answer the purpose of it's creation. That proposition is little less than self-evident.

The only question is as to sustaining the change before the people. I believe it can be sustained, because it does not increase the tax upon the "many poor'' but upon the "wealthy few'' by taxing the land that is worth $50 or $100 per acre, in proportion to its value, insted of, as heretofore, no more than that which was worth but $5 per acre. This valuable land, as is well known, belongs, not to the poor, but to the wealthy citizen.

On the other hand, the wealthy can not justly complain, because the change is equitable within itself, and also a sine qua non to a compliance with the Constitution. If, however, the wealthy should, regardless of the justness of the complaint, as men often are, when interest is involved in the question, complain of the change, it is still to be remembered, that they are not sufficiently numerous to carry the elections.

Verry Respectfully
A. LINCOLN

(Yes, at the time, Lincoln spelled the word "very" with two r's. )

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 1. Pages 147-148.
Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865.]]>