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Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
05-23-2014, 07:46 PM (This post was last modified: 05-23-2014 08:02 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)
Post: #78
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(05-22-2014 09:12 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I personally have never doubted the Rutledge romance. What I do scoff at is the idea that she affected AL for the rest of his life, or that she was necessarily his great love.
I agree on this.
(05-23-2014 12:31 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  I also believe that had Lincoln married Anne Rutledge, he never would have been President of the United States. Subsequent events, including the marriage to Mary Todd, as they actually occurred were the course of history.
I agree on this, too, though I wouldn't say "never", but "most likely not".
(05-23-2014 12:31 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  I absolutely believe that Anne Rutledge was the love of Lincoln's life...
How do you define "the love of Lincoln's life"?

Everyone loves in a different way, and one can love someone in many different ways and depths, and some can't understand others feel things in a different way.
So, what is the love of one's life? The deepest? The longest? The one that involves the most parameters? For me it would be the deepest, and thenceforth lifelong persistent one. It would imply that there could no further follow. (Your definition might be a different one - then please tell!)

To illustrate: I think most people who marry believe at that very moment they marry the love of their life. For quite many lucky ones it turns out to be like that, but in many cases it does not. IMO it needs quite a long time of proving (a great portion of lifetime) to make this statement a safe and certain one.

Since I believe Abraham Lincoln did love Mary in one or several ways, a love that followed the "Rutledge romance", this would for my definition be inconsistant with one another that Ann R. was Lincoln's love of his life. For the same reason I believe that even if there existed telltale letter passages to Dr. Drake, they were a product of his mindset at that very time - but life went on, and brought a new love®, and in the wedding ring he gave to Mary was engraved "Love is Eternal" (words that match "love of one's life" quite well, don't they?).

The following is AFAIK the only review (to Isaac Cogdal, before he left Springfield for Washington) on his feelings for Ann Rutledge that dates from after he had met Mary and thus could compare:

"I did really - I ran off the track: it was my first. I loved the woman dearly & sacredly: she was a handsome girl - would have made a good loving wife - was natural and quite intellectual, though not highly Educated, I did honestly - & truly love the girl & think often - often of her now." (Wilson/Davis: "Herndon's Informants", p. 383 - Letter from Robert B. Rutledge to William H. Herndon).

This is, I think, exactly how it was, his first love, for most people a special one in lifelong memory, but nevertheless not necessarily the love #1 - A. Lincoln did not say she was the love of his life.

I think the New Salem time was for him what in German we would figuratively call his "Sturm- und Drangzeit", literally "Storm and Drive Period". ("Sturm und Drang" was a proto-Romantic movement in German literature and music, late 1760ies to the early 1780ies, in which individual subjectivity and, in particular, extremes of emotion were given free expression in reaction to the perceived constraints of rationalism imposed by the Enlightenment and associated aesthetic movements.) This period with all it's emotions IMO ended with his marriage, but his marriage persisted till the end of his life.

As for his love to (for?) Mary - allegedly, Abraham Lincoln said to a correspondent of the "Christian Register" at a White House reception: "My wife is as handsome as when she was a young girl and I, a poor nobody, fell in love with her, and what is more, I have never fallen out."...after over twenty years! Of course we don't know how reliable this account is, but the same goes (AFAIK) in the end for all we have on this topic.

However, we can only speculate and believe about this topic, and I think what we (want to) believe about "Lincoln's love life" depends a great deal on our own experiences, dreams, and ideals. So - this is what I believe so far or want to believe. (But I think I argued it quite well.)

PS: One statement by Yoko Ono on John Lennon after his death illustrates my idea of "the love of one's life" quite well: "He was my husband, he was my lover, he was my friend, he was my partner. And - he was an old soldier that fought with me." (I think Abraham and Mary Lincoln did that- they fought together for a long time.)
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Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-18-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rogerm - 07-18-2012, 06:24 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 07-18-2012, 06:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 07-18-2012, 09:31 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - J. Beckert - 07-18-2012, 09:39 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-19-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-03-2017, 05:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-03-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rsmyth - 07-19-2012, 08:52 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 07-19-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-19-2012, 11:43 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 12:10 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-19-2012, 01:15 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 07-19-2012, 02:54 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 01:56 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 08:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 08-01-2012, 08:58 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 09:08 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-01-2012, 09:20 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 09:33 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-01-2012, 07:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 09:45 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-10-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-10-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-10-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-11-2012, 07:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 08-11-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-11-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-19-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-19-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - GARY POPOLO - 11-22-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 11-22-2012, 03:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 11-23-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 12-04-2012, 05:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-21-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-21-2013, 04:30 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-21-2013, 06:29 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Tom Emery - 07-22-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Tom Emery - 07-22-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 04-19-2014, 05:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-19-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rsmyth - 04-23-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-07-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-22-2014, 05:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-23-2014, 05:03 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-21-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-21-2014, 08:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Eva Elisabeth - 05-23-2014 07:46 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 05-24-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-24-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-24-2014, 07:40 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-25-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-25-2014, 05:18 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-28-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-25-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-29-2014, 10:07 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-28-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-28-2014, 04:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-28-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-29-2014, 04:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-30-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-30-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-30-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-30-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-01-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-01-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-26-2014, 10:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-31-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-31-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - BettyO - 05-31-2014, 10:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - BettyO - 05-31-2014, 11:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-01-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-01-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 06-01-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 05:37 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-02-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 07-05-2014, 08:07 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-02-2014, 06:03 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-02-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-02-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 06-16-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-16-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-17-2014, 05:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-19-2014, 07:25 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-17-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 06-17-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-18-2014, 07:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-19-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-19-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-24-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-28-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-29-2014, 08:34 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 07-07-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-24-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 05:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 07:23 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 06-25-2014, 07:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-25-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 05:11 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 06:05 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 06:01 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-26-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Wild Bill - 06-26-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-26-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-26-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-27-2014, 05:24 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-27-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-28-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-30-2014, 05:11 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 07:49 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-30-2014, 12:22 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-30-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-02-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 07-02-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 07-07-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-02-2014, 07:52 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Angela - 09-03-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 09-03-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-03-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Houmes - 09-03-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 09-05-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 09-06-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-05-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 09-06-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-06-2016, 07:56 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - ELCore - 04-06-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-06-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-06-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-06-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-08-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Ed Steers - 04-22-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-25-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 04-23-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - davg2000 - 04-24-2016, 09:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 04-24-2016, 07:18 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-26-2016, 05:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-26-2016, 07:04 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-26-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-26-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-26-2016, 05:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-04-2016, 11:06 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-05-2016, 05:42 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-05-2016, 07:02 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 08-22-2016, 10:52 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Ed Steers - 12-04-2016, 08:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-04-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 12-04-2016, 01:35 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-04-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 12-04-2016, 05:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Anita - 12-05-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Houmes - 12-05-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-05-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 12-05-2016, 08:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Anita - 12-07-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-07-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-11-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-11-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-12-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-11-2017, 07:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 06-13-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-13-2017, 01:15 PM

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