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Abrahams cussing
12-07-2012, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2012 07:32 PM by Mike B..)
Post: #6
RE: Abrahams cussing
(12-07-2012 11:34 AM)Rob Wick Wrote:  This strikes me as much ado over nothing. Did Lincoln curse? Yes. Did the F-word exist during the Civil War? Of course it did. Lincoln was a product of the frontier. Think about this. If you look into a cabin like the one Lincoln grew up in, the first obvious point is that there is no privacy. Adults were engaged in adult behavior right alongside (sometimes) sleeping children. It's a fact of life. Read accounts of revivals and preacher's memoirs from the time when Lincoln was growing up and one of the main complaints is that frontier settlers were vulgar and used vulgarity on a regular basis. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that James McPherson would deny the profanity aspects of this story.

Any time David Barton is quoted in a story, it automatically sets of an alarm in my mind. Barton is not a historian. He's a propagandist.

Best
Rob

I may sound like a broken record on this forum...but YET again I agree with Rob Wick.

Lincoln, like many of us (yes I have used profanity and the "f" word a few times) used indelicate language on certain occasions.

In Zall's book which attempts to get to original Lincoln jokes, there was one joke that Lincoln used to tell with the "f" word in the punch-line. It is on page 101-102 of Zall's book. The joke about a boy and a cat isn't particularily funny as written, but the joke must have been more funny in the telling, sort of like Penn and Teller's infamous joke about the "Aristocrats."

(For those who may be offended at some off-color things, please stop reading now.)

Lincoln did tell potty humor, including a joke Herndon claimed he heard Lincoln tell countless times about a man passing gas while cutting a turkey at a party. Again not so funny as written, but I am sure Lincoln made it funnier in the telling.

One of the men who did report the Ethan Allen joke about the privy recalled Lincoln passing him a note after his marriage saying, "Brown why is a woman like a barrel?" You can look up the punchline in Herndon's Informants which is searchable online. Let's just say it is R rated.

The frontier atmosphere Rob Wick mentions is clearest in this incident. In court one day, Lincoln said to an adverse witness who put on airs of being a ladie's man, "There's Busey-he pretends to be a great heart-smasher-does wonderful things with the girls - but I'll venture that he never entered his flesh but once & and that is when he fell down and stuck his finger in his a--." The informant simply says, "things were free and easy back then."

There are a number of other jokes and half-jokes like this, but one gets the point.
Remember humans have been shown to use language situationally in studies. The almost all male frontier circut travelling atmosphere was very condusive to salty language. Lincoln as far as can be told did not break the social expectations of using this type of language around women for example.

(12-07-2012 01:20 AM)Ashley Norman Wrote:  Hey everyone i saw this and thoug i would share it may have already been shared but its a debate over Abraham's csuuong in the movie Lincoln

Here's the site

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/lincoln-cus...00268.html

A

Ok, yes, have to agree with Rob Wick yet again about "historian" David Barton. Barton said this in the article:

“The historical record is clear that Lincoln definitely did not tolerate profanity around him,” Barton says. “There are records of him confronting military generals if he heard about them cursing. Furthermore, the F-word used by Bilbo was virtually nonexistent in that day and it definitely would not have been used around Lincoln. If Lincoln had heard it, it is certain that he would instantly have delivered a severe rebuke.”

The above shows Barton knows zero about Abraham Lincoln and is again playing propagandist.

Apparently he knows as much about Lincoln as he does about Thomas Jefferson:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012...confidence

His publisher actually pulled his book on Jefferson because it was full of so much misinformation that they could not put it out in good faith with their name on it. The idea that he gets air time anywhere as a "historical expert" is a joke.

But back to his take on Lincoln in the movie.

Barton makes a whole bunch of errors in one paragraph. The "f" word was not virtually "non-existant." There is no record of Lincoln "instantly rebuking" generals for their language. As I have said above Lincoln used the word on occasion himself. Lincoln once famously said, "He would hold McCllelan's horse if he gave the country a victory." I doubt he would have worried about Little Mac's language.

Lincoln tolerated drinking, womanizing, and whatever as long as he thought a general was aggressive and successful (see Joe Hooker and Dan Sickles.)

The funny thing is Seward was known to curse far more than Lincoln and Lincoln used to rib Seward over it. The two rivals at one point developed a very close relationship. There is no evidence Seward's cursing ever got a real rebuke from Lincoln. Also, Lincoln friend and D.C. Marshall Ward Hill Lamon was universally known for his dirty jokes. Lamon acted as Lincoln's unofficial bodygurad, even sleeping on the floor in front of the door when Lincoln was re-elected without being asked to in case anyone tried to harm Lincoln. Again, no sign of Lincoln rebuking Lamon for his mouth.

I wish places would vet Barton more before they give him air time to spout off about things he knows nothing about.

OK...rant over Smile
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Messages In This Thread
Abrahams cussing - Ashley Norman - 12-07-2012, 01:20 AM
RE: Abrahams cussing - RJNorton - 12-07-2012, 07:30 AM
RE: Abrahams cussing - LincolnMan - 12-07-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-07-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-07-2012 07:17 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Ashley Norman - 12-07-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - LincolnMan - 12-07-2012, 08:56 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Ashley Norman - 12-07-2012, 11:11 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-07-2012, 09:51 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - L Verge - 12-11-2012, 07:43 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Jim Page - 12-11-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Gene C - 12-11-2012, 11:13 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-12-2012, 07:04 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-12-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-12-2012, 09:16 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - L Verge - 12-12-2012, 09:06 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - L Verge - 12-12-2012, 09:28 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-12-2012, 10:00 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-12-2012, 10:50 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Linda Anderson - 12-12-2012, 10:50 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Laurie Verge - 12-13-2012, 03:45 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-13-2012, 07:27 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - L Verge - 12-13-2012, 08:02 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-13-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - L Verge - 12-13-2012, 08:28 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Hess1865 - 12-13-2012, 09:16 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-14-2012, 09:14 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-14-2012, 10:59 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Linda Anderson - 12-16-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-16-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - LincolnMan - 12-16-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-21-2012, 01:11 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Gene C - 12-21-2012, 01:34 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Laurie Verge - 12-21-2012, 01:53 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-21-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-21-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - RJNorton - 12-21-2012, 05:18 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Rob Wick - 12-21-2012, 06:54 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-21-2012, 06:04 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-21-2012, 09:23 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-21-2012, 10:54 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - J. Beckert - 12-21-2012, 11:30 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-22-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-24-2012, 03:32 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Liz Rosenthal - 12-25-2012, 03:06 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - My Name Is Kate - 12-25-2012, 09:32 PM
RE: Abrahams cussing - Mike B. - 12-25-2012, 10:03 PM

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