Robert Todd Lincoln --The vitals

[kerry]

(01-25-2018 09:14 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 07:47 PM)kerry Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 06:22 PM)Gene C Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 12:36 PM)kerry Wrote:  It surprises me how often Herndon's witnesses say, "well, as I learned in Lamon's book," -- the effect of that book on Springfield memory has not been appreciated. It may have been generally denigrated, but people in Springfield knew that Lamon and Herndon, the provider of the information, knew Lincoln very well. They seemed to discount their own memories when inconsistencies arose. Only a few endeavored to correct it.

I have not heard (read) that before.
That is enlightening, thanks for posting.

You're welcome - it is interesting. The site is down, so I can't look at who said it. It happened a lot with Herndon's lectures on Ann Rutledge - many was so grateful for the fascinating backstory, never questioning it or his psychological analysis though never having heard of it. The only thing people questioned were the assertions about Lincoln's religion. Then they overruled Lamon with their own testimony, although some of them clearly made some stuff up to protect the legacy. It is especially aggravating for me with my Mary Lincoln research because the religion controversy completely drowned out an actual key research lead -- Mary Lincoln's own draft biography of Lincoln. I wrote about it here: https://medium.com/@kerry62189/where-is-...1806faa76b When William Reid wrote his letter, that revealed the project existed. And when people tracked William Reid down later or wrote about it, they did so to prove Lincoln was a devout Christian, and never asked about his work with Mary.

I've always been bothered by the way Herndon presented the Ann Rutledge story. Not one of the Rutledges interviewed by Herndon could gave a specific eyewitness memory of an event/instance of Lincoln courting Ann. But yet they're all sure they were courting/engaged. Isn't that a little weird, especially if it's supposedly the only evidence we have of the story?

Your point about the storytellers, like Herndon, (subtly) altering their own sources memories through their own presentation is very interesting.

Yes, while I know there is much controversy over this, my opinion is the Ann Rutledge evidence is weak. They probably hung out and courted a bit, but it's clear the witnesses had very little idea what actually happened. I think Lincoln had a breakdown that they used the death of Ann to explain, because depressive episodes do not typically have one big cause and people who don't experience it can't understand that. Lincoln's Melancholy explained it well. But no one has any worthwhile details -- they're just recirculating the same gossip, often incorrectly. One family member, who admits she was young and heard it secondhand, gave some colorful stories, then announced Ann died an old maid in another state. They were clueless. The more I look at the evidence, the more Herndon's approach confuses me. I don't doubt his sincerity, but his conclusions were just odd. He did seem to believe that Lincoln's heart was "in Ann's grave," and therefore any actual questions about Lincoln's accordingly non-loving family life never occurred to him. He missed so much of recording actual Springfield events regarding the family that would have been enlightening about Lincoln. And he was always saying he'd tell the truth about the Lincoln family and illuminate them some day, and wrote an article that got nixed, and then removed all references to such things from his papers. What was going on? The point I keep coming back to is that Springfield early on got a set of "approved facts" and stuck with it, and so even when they seem credible, they are often just repeating what they've heard. You really have to be wary of the sources. Then there are ones with just bad memories - complaining about the Lincolns not entertaining or inviting them when Browning's diary mentions a bunch of parties, and a David Davis letter has him turning down an invite. The ones who knew better generally didn't sell out their stories, and it must be remembered that Elizabeth Edwards herself is responsible for the two weddings story usually held against Herndon. It's all very confusing and probably can never be figured out now.