"Lost" Speeches and Agrapha

[Herndon]

(09-15-2015 12:24 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I think the quote is supposed to be from a speech he gave in Springfield in 1856. However, I cannot find the quote either, Matt.

(09-15-2015 01:45 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  I have to question whether Lincoln made the comment about providence. It appears that the only source for that quote is Ward Hill Lamon, who bought copies of Herndon's material and used them in his book. Lamon, of course, never actually wrote the book. It was ghost-written by Chauncey Black, a Democrat. For an interesting article on Lamon, Black and Herndon, see this by Rodney Davis in the Journal of the Abraham Lincoln Association.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2629860...w=fulltext

When one reads the original and then the subsequent reprint of Herndon's book, there is no mention made of the "providence" quote. ...

The 1902 edition, in which Jesse Weik had a stronger editorial hand, repeats the quote verbatim.

It should also tell you something that Albert J. Beveridge, in his two-volume biography of Lincoln, doesn't repeat the quote. Beveridge had full access to Herndon's material in the writing of his biography and only uses the material that Herndon had used. Beveridge, who almost fetishized footnotes, only writes about the response of the Democratic State Register to the meeting and makes no mention of the "providence" quote.

I also checked an online version of Emanuel Hertz's The Hidden Lincoln and did a search using the word "providence" to see if Herndon had used it in any letters. He did, but none refer to the speech.

Also, in The Recollected Words of Abraham Lincoln the Fehrenbachers give the entire speech a "D" noting that "The sentiments are certainly Lincoln's, but there appears to be no other evidence that he made such a speech." (pg. 246)

I don't necessarily discount the idea that Lincoln talked to the group. It certainly would be in character for him. But given that the only source for this would be Lamon/Black, I don't believe Lincoln made the "providence" quote. Even the words "from" Herndon say that he addressed the group "substantially in these words."

(09-15-2015 01:56 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thanks for this well-founded conclusion, Rob - somehow I've always felt this doesn't 100% sound "Lincoln".

Seconded: thanks very much for looking into this Roger & Rob, and for this detailed, reasoned explanation. The history behind it is intriguing: how brash of Black if he was only paid to put words into Lamon's mouth, not Lincoln's! (Definitely think I'll keep my username as the more prestigious Herndon though!)

(09-15-2015 01:56 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  The Fehrenbachers' "Recollected Works" is not fully online, is it?

(09-15-2015 02:09 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  Unfortunately, it is not online. There are used copies available and it appears the price has moderated quite a bit. I paid around $50 for my copy which at the time was the cheapest I could find.

Yep, looks like the prices are moderating as you say: just managed to track one down in apparently good condition for £14 (~$22, including postage, via BookFinder)! Great outcome of the thread between this, the above, and the two invented versions of the Bloomington Lost Speech; thank you all again, and ever onward!

Matt