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Thomas F. Harney
11-15-2014, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 11-15-2014 02:07 PM by L Verge.)
Post: #49
RE: Thomas F. Harney
(11-14-2014 08:02 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote:  Very well put, Kate.

To me, the most poignant example of Herold's true intelligence lies in the poem he wrote for Willie Jett. It's clear from his own writing that Herold was a well educated and thoughtful man - the exact opposite of what the defense tried to portray him as in their effort to save his life.

Far too often in the literature today the complex characters of the conspirators are misrepresented as one dimensional taglines. "Atzerodt was nothing but a drunk, Herold had the intelligence of an 11 year-old, Powell was a heartless soldier" All of these representations are not only incorrect but also damaging to the study of our history. If we boil down these multifaceted men and women into single (and erroneous) bullet points, we lesson the impact of Lincoln's death. The whole story then loses the very important context which makes it so interesting to study. The true conspiracy of Booth's plot does not stem from any hypothetical outside influence, but rather from the complex internal and external interactions between his core conspirators and their own personal belief systems and values. No one was a pawn in this. They were all complex individuals who acted the way they did based on their unique personal histories. When we subjugate the identities of the conspirators to cliched taglines, we prevent ourselves from getting a complete and accurate view of story.

Kate and Dave - Your combined responses to this topic are wonderfully stated and show once again that historians need to get behind the facade of standard suppositions about their subjects and find out their real backgrounds, education, personalities, etc. In this case, they also really need to judge the tactics and techniques that legal counsel would use to try and defend them in a seemingly hopeless situation.

I have spent the past fifty or so years telling people that each of the conspirators had something that Booth (and his operatives) needed. Atzerodt had spent four years crossing the Potomac River without a Union patrol catching him. Powell had the skills that had impressed Mosby and could provide the brawn needed to subdue whoever was in the Seward household and get to his target. And, Herold knew the terrain over which they would need to travel -- and more importantly, he knew the people of that area. Who was friendly? Who do we avoid? Who can I trick with my "trifling boy" routine?

My family was obviously known to Herold and friendly with him. Our side of the story is that Herold was not an incompetent; he was emotionally immature. We said that being raised as the only boy in a household of sisters could do that to a boy! I have also known quite a few young men who used the "class clown" technique to gain friendship with the "in crowd." Some later descriptions from classmates at the Rittenhouse Academy and Georgetown College testify to that aspect.

If I were the defense lawyer for any of the conspirators, I would be pulling the "mental" card for each and every one of them. That tactic was the one that might convince the court to spare a life. Remember that even Dr. Mudd was being judged by one general (Lew Wallace?) on the bumps on his head indicating poor character. Those tactics are what made it into the court transcripts and hence into the history books. Few people want to take the time to read between the lines and go in search of true character traits. "Will the real David Herold please stand up." Remember that old line from some TV show of the 1950s?

"I imagine Herold was also interrogated pretty hard, and it's no wonder his story may have been inconsistent, he was scared to death."

Over thirty years ago, James O. Hall handed me a stack of the conspirators' statements made to the authorities and told me to transcribe them into a booklet form that we could sell at the Surratt House to raise money. I spent hours at my kitchen table on an old electric typewriter deciphering 1865 handwriting and typing up the pages. I learned two things while doing the task: 1. Mrs. Surratt sure knew how to handle herself under interrogation (like she knew it would come some day), and 2. David Herold seemed to be playing with his interrogators.

When I told Mr. Hall my feelings, he grinned that "all-knowing grin" of his and told me that he thought the exact same thing. In the case of Herold, he was impressed with how - under harsh circumstances and after so long on the run - well Herold conducted himself. He was almost leading the authorities on a goose chase with words. At one point, Mr. Hall and I agreed that it was almost as if Herold had been prepared for what to say -- and we even compared the interrogation to an Abbott and Costello routine! Hopefully, some of you are old enough to remember those wonderful skits...
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Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-10-2014, 07:25 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-10-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 10-11-2014, 05:04 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - loetar44 - 10-11-2014, 05:33 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jim Garrett - 10-11-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rsmyth - 10-11-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - STS Lincolnite - 10-11-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-11-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-14-2014, 09:23 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-14-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-14-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-12-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 10-12-2014, 05:11 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - STS Lincolnite - 10-12-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jim Garrett - 10-12-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 10-12-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-12-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-12-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - STS Lincolnite - 10-12-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - STS Lincolnite - 10-12-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 10-13-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-13-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 10-13-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-13-2014, 05:13 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-13-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-13-2014, 07:49 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-14-2014, 12:58 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-14-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 10-14-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 10-14-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 10-14-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jim Garrett - 10-18-2014, 10:43 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - loetar44 - 10-21-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 10-21-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jim Garrett - 10-21-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 10-21-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 10-22-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-24-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - SSlater - 10-26-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-14-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-14-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-14-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - KateH. - 11-14-2014, 06:50 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-14-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-15-2014, 05:34 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-14-2014, 07:38 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Dave Taylor - 11-14-2014, 08:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-15-2014 01:54 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-15-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-15-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-15-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-15-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-15-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jim Garrett - 11-15-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-15-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-15-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-15-2014, 07:09 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-15-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-15-2014, 08:44 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-16-2014, 04:54 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Jenny - 11-16-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-16-2014, 06:57 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 11-16-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-16-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-16-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 11-16-2014, 12:37 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-16-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-16-2014, 02:41 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-16-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-16-2014, 06:35 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-16-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 11-16-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-16-2014, 09:41 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-16-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Thomas Thorne - 11-17-2014, 02:11 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 11-17-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-17-2014, 07:59 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-17-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-17-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - BettyO - 11-17-2014, 08:17 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-17-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-17-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-17-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-17-2014, 04:47 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-18-2014, 06:45 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-18-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-20-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-21-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-17-2014, 04:56 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-17-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-19-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-20-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-20-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-20-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-17-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-17-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-17-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Linda Anderson - 11-17-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-17-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-18-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-18-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-18-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-18-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-18-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-19-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-19-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-19-2014, 06:15 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-19-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-19-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-19-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-19-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-20-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-20-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-20-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-20-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-20-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-20-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-20-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 04:57 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-20-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-20-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-20-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-20-2014, 06:05 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-20-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-21-2014, 12:31 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-21-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-21-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Wild Bill - 11-21-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Gene C - 11-21-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-21-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-21-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Linda Anderson - 11-21-2014, 04:59 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-21-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-21-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Linda Anderson - 11-21-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 11-21-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-22-2014, 08:58 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-21-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-22-2014, 08:39 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Linda Anderson - 11-22-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-22-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-23-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 11-23-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-22-2014, 11:24 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Rick Smith - 11-23-2014, 09:29 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Linda Anderson - 11-23-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-23-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-23-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - L Verge - 11-23-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-24-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-24-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-24-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-25-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Eva Elisabeth - 11-25-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - HerbS - 11-25-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - RJNorton - 12-10-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - John Fazio - 12-10-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - missouriblue - 01-16-2022, 10:54 AM
RE: Thomas F. Harney - Steve - 01-17-2022, 04:01 AM

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