Mary's Reputation

[Mike B.]

For those interested in the "Mary Lincoln Enigma."

Douglas Wilson gives a very convincing in my mind at least look at the whole Herndon vs. Mary meme.

He makes the case, that a lot of it is based on circular reasoning:

Why did Herndon say bad things about Mary? He hated her. How do we know we hated her? He said bad things about her...

He makes a strong case again in my mind, that the supposed hatred didn't really exist between them until his Ann Rutlede lecture, which as was noted above even if true was in very poor taste for a grieving widow. Most of the very negative material he collected on her was when they were on fairly good terms before the Ann Rutledge lecture.

Dr. James Brust who has worked with Jason Emerson makes the case in the book of bi-polar disorder for Mary. Of course, certainty is impossible but if true (as someone who has unfortunetly dealt with a family member with this issue) it could explain a lot and it should engender sympathy. Mental illness is just as much as an illness as physical illness.

On Mary's political skills, I have to disagree respectfully with those who claim she had great skill in this area (which is also in the book.) While she was highly educated and intelligent (look at the wit in her letters) there really isn't much in the record to claim she had some sort of political partnership with her husband ala John/Abagail Adams, Bill/Hillary Clinton, or FDR/Eleanor. Daniel Epstein wrote a book on the Lincoln marriage that really pushed that case. He even implied that Lincoln got Mary to approve his speeches. I looked in vain in the footnotes for this evidence and found none.

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Dear Tom Emery,

I think I would tend to disagree with this sentence:

"I think it's unusual that we give so many celebrities a pass because of "mental illness." But it seems that Mary Lincoln never gets that pass, and too few people have any sympathy for her emotional struggles."

Remember most defenders of Mary in the past have argued she DIDN'T suffer from mental illness. The argument from her most ardent biographer defenders is that she was framed by her son. Jean Baker's book even goes so far as to accuse Robert of bribing jurors (though shamefully her footnote for this startling claim does not back up that charge).

Also,
even Herndon of all people (and he did hate her by the time he wrote the biography of her) gave her some sympathy in this regard and blamed Lincoln for not making her life any easier.

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(11-18-2012 11:22 PM)Mike B. Wrote:  For those interested in the "Mary Lincoln Enigma."

Douglas Wilson gives a very convincing in my mind at least look at the whole Herndon vs. Mary meme.

He makes the case, that a lot of it is based on circular reasoning:

Why did Herndon say bad things about Mary? He hated her. How do we know we hated her? He said bad things about her...

He makes a strong case again in my mind, that the supposed hatred didn't really exist between them until his Ann Rutlede lecture, which as was noted above even if true was in very poor taste for a grieving widow. Most of the very negative material he collected on her was when they were on fairly good terms before the Ann Rutledge lecture.

Dr. James Brust who has worked with Jason Emerson makes the case in the book of bi-polar disorder for Mary. Of course, certainty is impossible but if true (as someone who has unfortunetly dealt with a family member with this issue) it could explain a lot and it should engender sympathy. Mental illness is just as much as an illness as physical illness.

On Mary's political skills, I have to disagree respectfully with those who claim she had great skill in this area (which is also in the book.) While she was highly educated and intelligent (look at the wit in her letters) there really isn't much in the record to claim she had some sort of political partnership with her husband ala John/Abagail Adams, Bill/Hillary Clinton, or FDR/Eleanor. Daniel Epstein wrote a book on the Lincoln marriage that really pushed that case. He even implied that Lincoln got Mary to approve his speeches. I looked in vain in the footnotes for this evidence and found none.

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Dear Tom Emery,

I think I would tend to disagree with this sentence:

"I think it's unusual that we give so many celebrities a pass because of "mental illness." But it seems that Mary Lincoln never gets that pass, and too few people have any sympathy for her emotional struggles."

Remember most defenders of Mary in the past have argued she DIDN'T suffer from mental illness. The argument from her most ardent biographer defenders is that she was framed by her son. Jean Baker's book even goes so far as to accuse Robert of bribing jurors (though shamefully her footnote for this startling claim does not back up that charge).

Also,
even Herndon of all people (and he did hate her by the time he wrote the biography of her) gave her some sympathy in this regard and blamed Lincoln for not making her life any easier.

Sorry, I keep quoting myself...to reply.

I agree with Laurie V. about the chemical imbalance part of the equation. We (I mean science and doctors) know a lot more about this subject today than they did in the 19th century.

There are medications today that could have helped with possible post-partum or bi-polar or whatever mental sickness she had (if you agree she suffered from it).

And I believe me I have nothing but sympathy for mental illness because of certain things I have had to deal with with family members. In a way, people don't understand. It is not something a person can just "snap out of;" it is as Laurie V. said a true neuro-chemical problem. Often the people who suffer from these illnesses know what they are doing is not "logical" but they can not stop.

I know people have very strong feelings if Mary qualifies as one of those.