Who is this lady?

[Steve Whitlock]

(06-25-2021 10:02 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 09:34 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 09:10 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:  Does anyone know whether any of the doctors attending Lincoln may have accidentally cut themselves during the process? I ask because there is evidence of blood on Lincoln's sheet that wasn't his.

Steve, I knew about blood on the pillow slip(s), but blood on the sheet was new to me. How is it known that the blood on the sheet was not Lincoln's? Do you know where you read this? Many thanks.

Roger,

There was an mtdna study done by Colleen Fitzpatrick for two supposed pieces of sheet claiming provenance to that which Lincoln lay on. The haplogroup came back as "N" in both instances. Had it been Lincoln's blood it should be haplogroup X1c. I don't know whether they put fresh sheets on the bed during the rush of the moment, or whether someone may have inadvertently cut himself while removing Lincoln's attire, or what. At this point I'm just contemplating possibilities. There are other artifacts, and if another N shows up there perhaps a rethink is in order. Just getting ready in the meantime.

That information comes from a source I'm not at liberty to discuss for now. But I do seem to recall reading something about unexpected results in a document from one of Colleen's seminars, that wasn't as explicit.

Steve W.

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(06-25-2021 10:02 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 09:34 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 09:10 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:  Does anyone know whether any of the doctors attending Lincoln may have accidentally cut themselves during the process? I ask because there is evidence of blood on Lincoln's sheet that wasn't his.

Steve, I knew about blood on the pillow slip(s), but blood on the sheet was new to me. How is it known that the blood on the sheet was not Lincoln's? Do you know where you read this? Many thanks.

Roger,

There was an mtdna study done by Colleen Fitzpatrick for two supposed pieces of sheet claiming provenance to that which Lincoln lay on. The haplogroup came back as "N" in both instances. Had it been Lincoln's blood it should be haplogroup X1c. I don't know whether they put fresh sheets on the bed during the rush of the moment, or whether someone may have inadvertently cut himself while removing Lincoln's attire, or what. At this point I'm just contemplating possibilities. There are other artifacts, and if another N shows up there perhaps a rethink is in order. Just getting ready in the meantime.

That information comes from a source I'm not at liberty to discuss for now. But I do seem to recall reading something about unexpected results in a document from one of Colleen's seminars, that wasn't as explicit.

Steve W.

Roger,

I believe the blood-stained sheets are likely part of this:

Description
A Piece of the Bloodstained Linen Sheet On Which President Lincoln Died. The sheet from Lincoln's bed was obtained at the time by Massachusetts diplomat and politician Charles K. Tuckerman (1821-1896). At some point Tuckerman cut out a bloodstained section measuring 6.5" x 8", which was subsequently divided into small pieces. The present specimen, measuring 0.5" x 1", later passed through the hands of pioneer autograph dealer Mary Benjamin, and a copy of her 1961 letter of transmittal to famed Americana dealer Norm Flayderman is included with the lot. This piece was purchased by the consignor in the December 12, 2014 Heritage auction of the Dr. Michael Stevens Collection, where it sold for $3250. The consignor has been able to match it to the precise place it can be found on the Tuckerman sheet (see photo with our website presentation of this lot).
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Sample is attached.

Steve W.

Roger,

You should read this article https://alltogether.swe.org/2019/02/we-a...rt-series/

Note the following:

Lincoln’s Mother — and a Rare mtDNA Haplogroup
We Are Data – Part One Of A Two-part Series
Abraham Lincoln’s mother, Nancy Hanks Lincoln, as envisioned by artist and Lincolniana collector, Lloyd Ostendorf, based on his research. – Indiana State Museum and Historic Sites

The Abraham Lincoln DNA Project was started by Zach Spigelman, M.D., a cancer specialist with an interest in orphan diseases. “Lincoln has no living descendants,” Dr. Fitzpatrick explained. “His parents have no living descendants either. His sister died in childbirth with her son, and his brother died at the age of three days. Since Lincoln’s remains are buried under concrete, the best we could do was to try to get his DNA from relics, although they had to be authenticated before they could be used for our project.”

For authentication, Dr. Fitzpatrick needed to find a family member in Lincoln’s maternal line who could be used as an mtDNA reference. The problem: Almost nothing is known of Lincoln’s mother, Nancy Hanks’ family, or where she came from before she moved to Kentucky in the mid-1780s.

“I started with two possible Nancy Hankses and traced maternal descendants of their sisters,” Dr. Fitzpatrick said. “We were hoping that mtDNA from those descendants would match the mtDNA of the relics, which would be an indication that the relics were authentic and that we had the right Nancy.

“Unfortunately, all the Hanks descendants matched each other, none of the relics matched the other relics, and none of the Hanks descendants matched any of the relics,” she continued. “We were not able to distinguish which Nancy Hanks, if either, was Lincoln’s mother, nor were we able to authenticate any of the relics.

“However, we did have one major discovery — the haplogroup, or the population group associated with the mtDNA of the Hanks descendants. The haplogroup — known as X1c — had never been observed in the western hemisphere. Only two other cases had ever been observed in the world, one in southern Italy and the other in Tunisia. There’s reason to believe his mother’s line goes back to the Mediterranean Basin,” Dr. Fitzpatrick said. “It’s still a puzzle how that DNA got into colonial Virginia.
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I believe the relics that did not match were the sheet samples I mentioned. Note also that her study has X1c haplogroup for Lincoln's maternal line (the same as Genetic Lincoln) however, the genealogy differs between the 2 studies. Abraham Hanks, as I've said before, was not the father of Nancy Hanks Lincoln.