Robert Todd Lincoln --The vitals

[Eva Elisabeth]

(01-13-2018 09:30 PM)ScholarInTraining Wrote:  

(01-13-2018 09:37 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Thank you for your reply, Scholar in training. I actually was solely interested in the evidence you claimed he DID believe in God.
In your post #121 you wrote (and already did jump to say that RTL was a Deist) :
"He believed in God - evidenced by quotes and letters and stuff -"

So if I understand correctly that "we should never cease our thanks to God" in that speech is the evidence you were thinking of as well as the words to his mother someone witnessed according to this:
https://books.google.at/books?id=tPqgC3R...ll&f=false
Thanks for sharing.
As for the words to his mother, can someone share the original source? Thanks much.

The speech is here:
http://alplm-cdi.com/chroniclingillinois.../show/8326
https://books.google.at/books?id=3XLTAAA...ft&f=false

The passage does sound like the Gettysburg Address to me (well, his father used "inspiration" from other writings, too, most likely also for that speech), and God in commemorative speeches is certainly a welcome tribute to the bereaved as well as "letting his father speak through" at this very occasion (i.e. just sells better). Similarly God might have been the last attempt to "reach" and console his mother. Sure Robert could have left God out of both.

I wonder if in the letters you mentioned in post #121 there's some more personal revelation? (Sincere, honest question, I would honestly be interested in.)

Whatever God he might have believed in or not to whatever degree, at least I personally feel some of his actions or lack thereof aren't in line with Christian values (which actually goes for many confirmed Christians, and vv.).

Well, to look at one example, remember when he wrote to John Hay that "God willing (he would) never again be in the jaws of that damning hyena, the public at large"? He was complaining about all the craziness around his being nominated for President of this Republican group called the American Protective Tariff League at the time. I want to say this was 1886.

Again, this excerpt from the conversation could be interpreted at first glance as a figure of speech. But I think the mention of God - especially His will at all - is telling for at least three reasons.

1. We know how very strongly RTL hated public attention. Yes, social gatherings with family and friends were fine. But the heckling media? No way!

2. Irreligion/nonreligion in the definitive sense has been ruled out.

3. Although we know that RTL liked to sometimes joke around and use a lot of witty humor in his writings, I don't think he was going to kid around about a belief in God given his situation.
And to better understand his situation, we need to know how he felt about it.

**With apologies to Robert Todd Lincoln, this is for educational purposes.**

Here is what he told Hay:

"I won't attempt to write you as I am going to do the Committee but for your own private ears here are two reasons against my accepting. There is no good reason why I should be selected as the formal head of a League and to anyone who gives it a thought the inquiry is at once suggested what has he done to entitle him to such a place and why does he take it? I am pretty happy just now. I am let alone in the papers and I don't want my name in them again until I am assured of the regular complimentary notes written by some member of my afflicted family with "no flowers" attached. Like Nanki Pooh, I won't be there to see it, but I don't mind that. God willing I will never again be in the jaws of that damning hyena the public at large and no man of my profession could enter the place suggested without being charged with having his lightning rod up as they say."

That was one considerable example (yet an idiom), thank you.
Just curious - why is it so important for you that he "was" no atheist respectively that he "believed" in" God"? Would you consider atheism as a "negative feature"?