Lincoln speech on the Bible?

[Rob Wick]

Quote:I think it unlikely, even though his first “Lecture on Discoveries and Inventions” (1858) had many biblical references

My first thought, Eva, was maybe someone was getting the "Discoveries and Inventions" lecture confused, but there is too far a gap between dates. I still find it highly suspicious that neither Springfield paper would have had even a brief mention of the speech, or, as Roger cogently points out, that it wasn't on the minds of Lincoln's fellow townsmen and women.

Quote:This quote has always seemed a bit 'Lincolnesque' to me, but made under different circumstances, perhaps during his White House years? (possibly when presented a Bible or meeting with leaders of a religious group)
I had never questioned it's authenticity, so thanks for sharing Fehrenbacher's "C" rating on the quote and circumstances.

Gene, I too would agree that such a quote would fit in with the Lincoln who served in the White House, but even then I'm not sure it sounds as much like Lincoln as how someone might want him to sound, especially someone trying to blast Herndon who at the time Smith wrote him had delivered his Ann Rutledge lecture.

Quote:In his book Abraham Lincoln: From Skeptic to Prophet, Dr. Wayne Temple appears to accept this alleged Lincoln Bible lecture as real.

Roger, in all the other books I've looked at on Lincoln's religion, it appears that most authors do accept Smith's testimony, but it keeps coming back to me to the fact that there is no corresponding support except from people who were lay leaders of the church. Herndon pointed out in 1870 to Ward Hill Lamon and to John Remsberg in the late 1880s that Smith did give a copy of his book to Lincoln, but that Lincoln "brought it to the office laid it down--never took it up again to my knowledge--never condescended to write his name in it--never spoke of it to me..." (Herndon to Lamon, March 6, 1870 in Douglas Wilson and Rodney O. Davis, Herndon on Lincoln: Letters, Pg. 103) Herndon, of all people, would have known if such a lecture ever happened. Yet, on December 20, 1866, Herndon wrote a letter to Smith, which was published in the Chicago Tribune of March 6, 1867, in which Herndon pointedly asked Smith "Have you any writings--letters or other such like evidence--proofs to show that while you were in this city, that Abraham Lincoln was converted to the belief that the Bible was God's special miraculous revelation; that he believed in special miraculous inspiration, and miraculous conception --the miraculous conception of Jesus Christ, &c, as the orthodox Christian world teaches and preaches?" (Italics in original)

It should also be noted that Smith's reply, which was sent to Herndon, was also sent by Smith to the Dundee Advertiser in Scotland, which is how it ended up appearing in the Tribune. The paragraph containing the notice of the alleged speech was not sent by Smith to Herndon (as I had originally believed) but was sent by Smith to the editor of the Dundee paper. I left out the beginning, in which Smith wrote "N.B." which, I was unaware, meant in Latin Nota Bene, or "Note well." Why in his response to Herndon did Smith not mention Lincoln's speech? If it was as well-known in Springfield as Smith and Lewis intimate, wouldn't that have been a devastating blow in Smith's war of words with Herndon?

Best
Rob