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Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
07-01-2014, 11:26 AM
Post: #324
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge
(06-30-2014 02:02 PM)Lewis Gannett Wrote:  
(06-30-2014 11:14 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  “Ann’s brother David urged her to marry Lincoln even before the return of her whilom fiancé, but she declined so that she could personally explain to McNamar her change of heart.” (Professor Burlingame did not provide a source reference in this instance.)

“According to her sister Sarah, Ann ‘had brain fever and was out of [her] head all the time till about two days before she died, when she came to herself and called for Abe.’ Bowling Green fetched Lincoln. When he arrived ‘everybody left the room and they talked together.’ Emerging from that room, Lincoln ‘stopped at the door and looked back. Both of them were crying.’" (Source reference: Sarah Rutledge Saunders, interview with Katherine Wheeler, Chicago Tribune Magazine, 22 Feb. 1922.)

David: Note that the interviews are dated many decades after Ann Rutledge died. I deal with these sources and these quotes at tedious length in my 2010 JALA article, p. 27.

It is my opinion that such a scene as described by Sarah Rutledge Saunders would last a lifetime in the memory of any reasonably intelligent person.

But you may also want to consider the following information regarding the engagement of Abraham Lincoln to Ann Rutledge from three letters written by R. B. Rutledge to William Herndon dated October 1866, November 18, 1866 and November 21, 1866. (Source: "The Hidden Lincoln, from the Letters and Papers of William H. Herndon," by Emanuel Hertz, Blue Ribbon Books, 1949, pp. 310 - 319. Note the advantage to the reader provided by Mr. Hertz is the added proper punctuation to make the letters more readable.)

October 1866 letter, partial response to Herndon's fourth question at pages 312-13:

[McNamar] prospered in business and, pending his engagement with Ann, he revealed his true name, returned to Ohio [New York is correct] to relieve his parents from their embarrassments, and to bring the family with him to Illinois. . . . At all events he was absent two or three years.

In the meantime Mr. Lincoln paid his addresses to Ann, continued his visits and attentions regularly, and those resulted in an engagement to marry, conditional to an honorable release from the contract with McNamar. There is no kind of doubt as to the existence of this engagement. David Rutledge urged Ann to consummate it, but she refused until such time as she could see McNamar, inform him of the change in her feelings, and seek an honorable release.

November 18, 1866 letter:

I received a copy of your lecture, a day or two since, which is bold, manly, and substantially true. I will take the liberty to throw a little light on one point for your future use; to wit, Samuel Hill first courted Ann. She declined his proposition to marry, after which McNamar paid his addresses, resulting in an engagement to marry; after McNamar left Menard County to visit his parents and during his prolonged absence, Mr. Lincoln courted Ann, resulting in a second engagement, not conditional, as language would seem to indicate, but absolute. She, however, in the conversation referred to by me, between her and David, urged the propriety of seeing Mr. McNamar, inform him of the change in her feelings,and seek an honorable release, before consummating the engagement with Mr. Lincoln by marriage.

I hope to be able to visit you this winter, as I assure you nothing would give me more pleasure than to see and talk with the man who appreciates the virtues and character of Abraham Lincoln. (page 318)

November 21, 1866 letter:

I have just received your two letters of 18th and 19th inst. and hasten to answer. . . .

You ask, fourthly: Do I get the facts all correctly, and tell them truthfully? I answer: Substantially you do, but probably a little in error in detail in one or two particulars; to wit, in your lecture you say three men fell in love with Ann Rutledge simultaneously. The facts are William Berry first courted Ann and was rejected; afterwards Samuel Hill; then John McNamar, which resulted in an engagement to marry at some future time. He, McNamar, left the county on business, was gone some years; in the meantime and during McNamar's abscence, Mr. Lincoln courted Ann and engaged to marry her, on the completion of the study of law. In this I am corroborated by James McRutledge, a cousin about her age, and who was in her confidence. He says in a letter to me just received: "Ann told me once in coming from a camp meeting on Rock Creek, that engagements made too far ahead sometimes failed, that one had failed (meaning her engagement with McNamar), and gave me to understand that as soon as certain studies were completed she and Lincoln would be married." He says you and Mr. Gogsdell talked with him on this subject, but he did not tell you as much, as he thought you had a design in it; you can correspond with him and say to him that this is no longer a delicate question, inasmuch as it must of necessity become a matter of history, that I desire the whole truth to be recorded. I think you are in error as to the of Ann's sickness; you will pardon me for my frankness, as I wish to assist you in developing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I have no doubt but Ann had fully detemined to break off the engagement with McNamar, but presume she had never notified him of the fact, as he did not return until afte her death. . . .

You ask me how I like your lecture. I answer I like it very much; the great wonder with me is, how you have unearthed, developed, and brought to light and life so much dead matter, and made so few mistakes.

I am, dear sir, truly your friend, R. B. Rutledge. (pages 318-19)

"So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out the truth of anything by history." -- Plutarch
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Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-18-2012, 04:38 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rogerm - 07-18-2012, 05:24 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 07-18-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 07-18-2012, 08:31 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - J. Beckert - 07-18-2012, 08:39 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 07:33 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-19-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-03-2017, 04:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-03-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rsmyth - 07-19-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 07-19-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-19-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 11:10 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-19-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 07-19-2012, 01:54 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-19-2012, 12:56 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 07:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 08-01-2012, 07:58 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 08:08 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-01-2012, 08:20 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-01-2012, 06:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012, 08:45 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-10-2012, 07:15 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-10-2012, 07:17 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-10-2012, 08:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-11-2012, 06:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 08-11-2012, 10:35 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-11-2012, 01:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012, 06:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-19-2012, 09:48 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 08-19-2012, 10:24 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 08-19-2012, 10:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - GARY POPOLO - 11-22-2012, 01:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 11-22-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 11-23-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 12-04-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-21-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 07-21-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-21-2013, 05:29 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Tom Emery - 07-22-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Tom Emery - 07-22-2013, 03:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 04-19-2014, 04:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-19-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rsmyth - 04-23-2014, 06:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-07-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-22-2014, 04:15 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-23-2014, 04:03 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-21-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-21-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 05-24-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-24-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-24-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-25-2014, 06:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-25-2014, 04:18 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-28-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-25-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-29-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-28-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-28-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-28-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-29-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-30-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-30-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-30-2014, 11:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 05-30-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-01-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-01-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-26-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 05-31-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 05-31-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - BettyO - 05-31-2014, 09:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - BettyO - 05-31-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-01-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-01-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 06-01-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-02-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 07-05-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-02-2014, 05:03 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-02-2014, 08:12 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-02-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 06-16-2014, 06:18 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-16-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-17-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-19-2014, 06:25 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-17-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Hess1865 - 06-17-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-18-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-19-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-19-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-24-2014, 08:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-28-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-29-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 07-07-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-24-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 04:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-24-2014, 11:06 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 06:23 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 10:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Rob Wick - 06-25-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-25-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-25-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-25-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-25-2014, 05:05 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 05:01 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Mike B. - 06-26-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Wild Bill - 06-26-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-26-2014, 08:27 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-26-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-26-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-27-2014, 04:24 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-27-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 12:57 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-27-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-28-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-30-2014, 04:11 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - David Lockmiller - 07-01-2014 11:26 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 06:49 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-30-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-30-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-30-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-02-2014, 07:55 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 07-02-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 07-07-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-02-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Angela - 09-03-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 09-03-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-03-2014, 02:27 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Houmes - 09-03-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 09-05-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 09-06-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 09-05-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 09-06-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-06-2016, 06:56 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - ELCore - 04-06-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-06-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-06-2016, 09:43 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-06-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-08-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Ed Steers - 04-22-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-25-2016, 03:40 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 04-23-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - davg2000 - 04-24-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 04-24-2016, 06:18 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-26-2016, 04:13 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-26-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 04-26-2016, 07:06 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 04-26-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 04-26-2016, 04:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-04-2016, 10:06 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 07-05-2016, 04:42 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - LincolnMan - 07-05-2016, 06:02 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 08-22-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Ed Steers - 12-04-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-04-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 12-04-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-04-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 12-04-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Anita - 12-05-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Houmes - 12-05-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 12-05-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Joe Di Cola - 12-05-2016, 07:14 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Anita - 12-07-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-07-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-11-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-11-2017, 11:01 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - RJNorton - 06-12-2017, 04:10 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - L Verge - 06-11-2017, 06:47 PM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - HerbS - 06-13-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: Lincoln and Ann Rutledge - Gene C - 06-13-2017, 12:15 PM

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