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Ham920 · 11-30-2012, 08:53 AM

In a prior post I made I had stated that I was unaware of any time other than the Confederate attack against D.C. when Lincoln was on a battlefield strewn with bodies. In reviewing Doris Kearns Goodwin’s “Team of Rivals” she states that Lincoln did indeed travel over the Fort Stedman Battlefield when he visited Grant at City Point, VA. about 8 miles from the battle. The movie was correct in portraying Lincoln traveling over the battlefield which was still covered with dead and wounded.

Rob Wick · 11-30-2012, 09:54 AM

Looks like now I'll finally be able to see the movie on December 12. No one tell me how the war ends, OK? Big Grin

Best
Rob

LincolnMan · 11-30-2012, 10:47 AM

Interesting observations Marks-thanks for sharing them!

Linda Anderson · 11-30-2012, 12:39 PM

(11-30-2012 08:40 AM)Mark MacKenzie Wrote: Now this may get me banned from the forum.... Lincoln played a very passive role in the assassination. In fact, I think he had very little to do with it. I'm glad they handled it the way they did. Not to say the assassination doesn't deserve a movie of its own just not titled Lincoln.

Expressing an opinion in a respectful way won't get you banned, Mark! I guess it depends what you mean by passive role. Lincoln lived his life in such a way that he knew he would be a target for many people and yet he continued to do his work. He certainly was not responsible for Booth's actions but if Lincoln had stayed in Springfield, he may have lived out his life quietly and died peacefully in bed.

I still think they should have shown an quick scene of the assassination. We're so emotionally involved with Lincoln throughout the movie that when he dies without us there (I consider that his life was effectively over at Ford's Theater) it feels like we should have been there to witness it. It's something like being at a loved one's deathbed.

Mark MacKenzie · 11-30-2012, 07:37 PM

Yes, I do understand.

I have wondered if Lincoln actually considered his martyrdom as good for the country and put himself in harm's way purposely and also to end his own personal tragic depression. A death wish. But after thinking more about it and reading alot on this forum, decided maybe thats not true.

I'm sure they considered including the assassination and it would have been incredible to see what Spielberg would do. I bet he would do a close up of Mary's face realizing he was shot.
The scene of the second inaugural was a resurrection of sorts.

I hope I haven't spoiled the movie. Rob, don't read this until after you see it...

Linda Anderson · 11-30-2012, 08:05 PM

(11-30-2012 07:37 PM)Mark MacKenzie Wrote: I have wondered if Lincoln actually considered his martyrdom as good for the country and put himself in harm's way purposely and also to end his own personal tragic depression. A death wish. But after thinking more about it and reading alot on this forum, decided maybe thats not true.

I think Lincoln wanted to live but after having the horrific dream about being dead in the White House and then the dream about moving towards a distant shore that he always had before a life-changing event, I have no idea how he got through his final days without being paralyzed by depression.

Mark MacKenzie · 11-30-2012, 08:20 PM

I can't believe he told Mary the dream. Lee's surrender, the illumination, all must have been such a relief. He looked so bad though in that last photo.

Do you think the movie portrayed his deep sadness?

Linda Anderson · 11-30-2012, 08:43 PM

(11-30-2012 08:20 PM)Mark MacKenzie Wrote: I can't believe he told Mary the dream. Lee's surrender, the illumination, all must have been such a relief. He looked so bad though in that last photo.

Do you think the movie portrayed his deep sadness?

I felt a sense of heaviness and sadness in DDL's portrayal of Lincoln. It was great to see Lincoln tell a joke, even if people walked out of the room when he started to tell it! The joke telling emphasized Lincoln's need for some relief from the constant strain he was under.

11-30-2012, 10:09 PM

I liked the way they showed Stanton's aggravation when Lincoln would start one of his stories.
Always heard Stanton couldn't stand hearing them...

Linda Anderson · 11-30-2012, 10:16 PM

(11-30-2012 10:09 PM)Hess1865 Wrote: I liked the way they showed Stanton's aggravation when Lincoln would start one of his stories.
Always heard Stanton couldn't stand hearing them...

Did Lincoln repeat his stories?

RJNorton · 12-01-2012, 05:10 AM

(11-30-2012 10:16 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Did Lincoln repeat his stories?

Yes - often he did, according to his friends. I am going to mention a book that I do not think we've ever mentioned on the forum - Paul M. Zall's Abe Lincoln Laughing: Humorous Anecdotes from Original Sources by and about Abraham Lincoln, (University of California Press, 1982).

I own several books of Lincoln's jokes and stories, but many of them are filled with stories that are apocryphal or without an authentic original source.

Professor Zall tried to separate the true Lincoln anecdotes from ones that could not be verified. In the process, Professor Zall eliminated literally hundreds of Lincoln stories, jokes, anecodotes, etc.

And, yes, the Ethan Allen story is in there!

Linda Anderson · 12-01-2012, 07:56 AM

(12-01-2012 05:10 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(11-30-2012 10:16 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Did Lincoln repeat his stories?

Yes - often he did, according to his friends. I am going to mention a book that I do not think we've ever mentioned on the forum - Paul M. Zall's Abe Lincoln Laughing: Humorous Anecdotes from Original Sources by and about Abraham Lincoln, (University of California Press, 1982).

Well, if he was telling the same stories to the same people, I can see why people would leave! I don't think Lincoln would have cared if they did, though. The telling was probably more for him than for his audience.

RJNorton · 12-01-2012, 08:37 AM

(12-01-2012 07:56 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: The telling was probably more for him than for his audience.

I think your point is excellent, Linda. I am sure many authors have written about it, but Dr. Mark Neely certainly immediately comes to mind as one who notes the therapeutic value of humor in helping Lincoln deal with the pressures he felt.

LincolnMan · 12-01-2012, 02:00 PM

Here is a question regarding the movie: Why do you think Spielberg chose to include a scene in the movie showing Lincoln with the young Union Officer (and the other gentlemen)-apparently in a bedroom-as if Lincoln had slept with him (them?)? Do you think it was some sort of "wink" to those claiming Lincoln was gay? Do you think it was necessary to even have the scene? It seem a bit distracting for me. Anyone else puzzled by it?

L Verge · 12-01-2012, 07:40 PM

I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know the context in which the incident that supposedly occurred at the Anderson Cottage was portrayed. Therefore, I can only guess that it was included to draw attention to the recent claims that have been made and also to show the many facets of Lincoln that keep us wondering.

Changing the subject in mid-stream: Knowing that the movie is based around Team of Rivals, would someone please explain to me the brouhaha that went on 150 years ago in mid-December of 1862, when Chase was mad at the two Sewards and Blair got involved and resignations started flying and a Senate Republican caucus committee had to meet with the Cabinet (sans Seward) to get things straightened out.

Since I'm allergic to politics, I don't want to have to do research to find this out. However, it intrigued me as I was preparing the December newsletter for the Surratt Society. Those of you who are members know that we have been carrying a synopsis of what happened each month of the Civil War using the work of E.B. Long in The Civil War Day By Day, 1861-1865. I had heard something about this back when I was in college, but I guess it flew over my head. Seeing it now has made my inquiring mind want to know what went on.