two questions

[mbgross]

Two questions.

1. Did Lincoln ever say that he would join an organized religion if they had but two tenets: a. Love God b. show that love by helping your fellow man? I'm paraphrasing, of course.

2. Did Orville Browning's diary, published by the Illinois Historical Society, back in the 20's and 30's, leave out important parts? Some critical about MTL? If so, is this part of his diary now published?

Thanks!

[Rob Wick]

Mike,

I won't try to answer your first question, but I can answer the second.

Yes, parts of the diary considered detrimental to MTL were excised by Theodore Pease and James G. Randall. As part of the deal between the Illinois Historical Society and the Browning heirs, the information had to be deleted before they could publish the diary. In editing Jesse Weik's book "The Real Lincoln: A Portrait," Michael Burlingame publishes what was excised for the first time.

Interestingly (at least to me), the Browning family was negotiating with various trade publishers for the rights to publish the diary. Harper and Brothers sought Ida Tarbell to review the material and give her opinion on its commercial viability. Tarbell didn't think the diary, as was published by Illinois, would be a large commercial seller, and there is some evidence in her papers that she would have kept the MTL material in the book had she been able to. I have Tarbell's papers on the publication, along with Randall and Pease's papers. The ALPLM has the papers Burlingame utilized along with other papers by Randall and Pease.

Best
Rob

[AussieMick]

Concerning the 1st question
Lincoln said,
"When any church will inscribe over its altar, as its sole qualification for membership the Saviour's condensed statement of the substance of both Law and Gospel, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbor, as thyself," that church will I join with all my heart and soul. -- A Remark to H. C. Demig, c. 1862."

I used it as the basis for a question a while back

[mbgross]

What excellent answers gentlemen! I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

Thanks Rob

I would like to read those missing entries, so I will try to pick up the Burlingame's book. I had bought Vol. 2 of Browning's diary at a used bookstore many years ago, but didn't read it, and recently purchased Vol. 1. Thought I would try to string it all together at one time. Thanks again!

Thanks Mick

I knew I had seen that quote from somewhere, and your post was probably it! I liked the quote very much and thought before I went sprouting off the quote to others, I wanted to make sure it was authentic. Thank you so much for straightening me out!

[Steve]

This webpage might be helpful for the first question. It has source citations:

https://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org...lns-faith/

[RJNorton]

In their book the Fehrenbachers give the quote a "C." A quote rated a "C" refers to a quote recorded non contemporaneously. IMO, this quote doesn't really sound much like Abraham Lincoln. Just my opinion.

[Gene C]

(06-08-2023 04:35 PM)Steve Wrote:  This webpage might be helpful for the first question. It has source citations:

https://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org...lns-faith/

Thanks for that link Steve.
I have both books, and the one by William J Wolf is excellent. it is my favorite that addresses Lincoln's view of religion. It's been mentioned on the forum previously.
I think it's a must have book for the serious student of Abraham Lincoln, and it's still very affordable.

https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussi...t=Religion

[Steve]

I tracked down the origin of the quote, Deming's June 8, 1865 speech to the Connecticut General Assembly:

https://books.google.com/books?id=6kkTAA...22&f=false

(page 42, if the link doesn't immediately open to the spot)

There's a little bit of context missing which was included in how Deming originally presented the anecdote in his speech, which might be helpful if your trying to evaluate the accuracy of Deming's recollection.

The above story is preceded by an anecdote of Deming visiting Lincoln in his office after John C. Fremont dropped his third-party presidential campaign in late September 1864. Lincoln reads from a Bible gifted to him by an African-American congregation. Reciting I Samuel 22:2, in reference to Fremont:

And every one that was in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one that was discontented, gathered themselves unto him; and he became a captain over them: and there were with him about four hundred men.

Deming then goes into the quote and story about Lincoln's creed, which he said happened at a different time. Following the creed quote Deming then goes on to say that Lincoln's favorite reads were the Bible, Shakespeare, Robert Burns, and a bunch of American humorists.

[mbgross]

Thanks again for the information. The book with the Browning missing diary is Burlingame's At Lincoln's Side: John Hay's Civil War Correspondence and Selected Writings. Thanks again. Interesting stuff.

[Rob Wick]

Mike,

My most humble apologies for steering you wrong. Turns out, why I thought it was in Weik's book was because the actual piece I was thinking of was an assessment of Henry Rankin, whom Tarbell had a long friendship with. I could have sworn that Browning's diary was in there, but I guess that's what I get for swearing.

Best
Rob

[mbgross]

No apology needed, you got me on the right track and that is all that matters. I appreciate your knowledge and posts.