Willie Lincoln plaque

[kerry]

The Miners visited Washington after Willie died, I think, and N.W. Miner was in contact with Mary up to the point of her death. But he seems prone to embellishment - the getting halfway through the word Jerusalem thing sounds doubtful. It sounds like Mary wanted to smooth the whole theater at Good Friday thing and his actual last words over with saying he'd been talking about visiting the holy land. And that Miner took it and ran with it, after there had been the whole controversy over Lincoln's Christianity.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I, too, love the Tabby story - I wish there were more thereof. I wonder however why (AFAIK) no other accounts exist - by Jula Taft e.g., or Elizabeth Keckley.

[RJNorton]

That is a very good point, Eva.

[L Verge]

The Miners visited Washington after Willie died, I think, and N.W. Miner was in contact with Mary up to the point of her death. But he seems prone to embellishment - the getting halfway through the word Jerusalem thing sounds doubtful. It sounds like Mary wanted to smooth the whole theater at Good Friday thing and his actual last words over with saying he'd been talking about visiting the holy land. And that Miner took it and ran with it, after there had been the whole controversy over Lincoln's Christianity.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Abraham and Mary discuss traveling to the Holy Land while on their carriage ride that afternoon? Perhaps the timing was just a little off in the retelling.

[Gene C]

This is what Mary claimed.
(Not sure who heard her say it)

[Eva Elisabeth]

Laurie and Gene (you are right) - please go here:
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...ight=miner

[Donna McCreary]

I, too, love the Tabby story - I wish there were more thereof. I wonder however why (AFAIK) no other accounts exist - by Jula Taft e.g., or Elizabeth Keckley.

Did Julia Taft ever visit the White House after Willie's death? For some reason, I thought she did not. The Miners visited after his death, so Julia would not have been present. And, as it happened at the table during a meal, Keckly would not have been present either.

I do love the Tabby story and hope it is true.

[L Verge]

I, too, love the Tabby story - I wish there were more thereof. I wonder however why (AFAIK) no other accounts exist - by Jula Taft e.g., or Elizabeth Keckley.

Did Julia Taft ever visit the White House after Willie's death? For some reason, I thought she did not. The Miners visited after his death, so Julia would not have been present. And, as it happened at the table during a meal, Keckly would not have been present either.

I do love the Tabby story and hope it is true.

I don't know my Lincoln history, but didn't Mary Lincoln request that the Taft children not visit again because of the memories? I know Julia was older, but she may have been included in the "ban."

[kerry]

I, too, love the Tabby story - I wish there were more thereof. I wonder however why (AFAIK) no other accounts exist - by Jula Taft e.g., or Elizabeth Keckley.

Did Julia Taft ever visit the White House after Willie's death? For some reason, I thought she did not. The Miners visited after his death, so Julia would not have been present. And, as it happened at the table during a meal, Keckly would not have been present either.

I do love the Tabby story and hope it is true.

Julia was later (like a year or two later) invited to some sort of reception by Mary. Tad threw himself on the floor screaming when he saw her, and Mary said "You know what he remembers," but was nice to Julia. I think it freaked Julia out and that was the last time she saw them.

[RJNorton]

I think I am missing something here. Wasn't Tabby one of the two kittens William Seward gave the Lincolns in 1861? If so, wouldn't it be possible for Willie and or Tad to have told Julia about their father being in the habit of feeding the cat at the dinner table? I think Tad especially would have thought this to be "cool" if it really happened. I can just "see" Tad telling folks about it. IMO, the fact that Tabby is not mentioned in Julia's book is a factor to be considered in trying decide the veracity of the story.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I was wondering if Tabby was one of Seward's kittens. I can see Tad the same and wonder if so why nothing made it into an account. And I wonder why Fanny never (AFAIK) has mentioned the kitties again.

[Gene C]

Personally, I find a fork or spoon gets in the way when I'm eating.
There's nothing quite like sticking your face in the bowl or plate to capture the full aroma of what your eating.


Fido

[Eva Elisabeth]

My cat agrees with you.

[STS Lincolnite]

Laurie, here is what it says in Twenty Days.

"Word soon got about that Mr. Lincoln had been back to the tomb twice to have Willie's coffin opened so that he could look at him again. Dr. Charles Brown had embalmed Willie so perfectly that he did really seem to be only sleeping, and Lincoln could not bear to leave him alone in the cold tomb."

There is no footnote or endnote. I have seen similar wording in a few other books, but I don't ever recall a footnote or an endnote about this. I am just curious if anyone has seen one. I just don't know the original source (if one exists). I am sure it's possible Lincoln did this, but I am unaware regarding where the information comes from.

I have recently been interested in Oak Hill Cemetery and its connections to Lincoln. As per this post, Willie was temporarily interred there, but Oak Hill is also the final resting place of Edwin Stanton and John Nicolay.

I remembered this thing about Willie had been previously discussed and found this older post. I was again wondering what the source citation was for the claim that Lincoln had Willie disinterred to view him. I haven't been able to find much more information than what Roger and others here have posted. I did see one story that as far as a source went simply stated "according to newspaper accounts at the time...". I hope to do some newspaper searches, but without specifics of dates, the timeframe is pretty wide - ranging from February 1862 to April 1865 I suppose. That is a lot of newspapers to sort through!

Has anyone read any more current information as to identification of a more definitive source more contemporary to the event or found any newspaper accounts of the alleged incidents?

[terryw]

I'm just jumping into this discussion. I'm working on a history of the Carroll family, including learning more about the vault and their friendship with the Lincolns. After requesting a digital copy of Mary Miner Hill's memoir, I was sent a pdf, so it is available from the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. There is a passage in the memoir, quoting from a letter the Rev. Miner wrote his daughter Katie while visiting Washington in June 1862 and visiting the Lincolns, that states that he visited the vault in Oak Hill and the sexton opened the lid of the coffin for him to peer at Willie underneath a glass covering. He was perfectly preserved and dressed as if he were alive. Mrs. Lincoln was sending flowers and greens to the vault every two days, filling it with a calming fragrance. Nothing about Lincoln visiting the vault in that manuscript. I am still searching for verification of his visits from contemporary sources. I would also be grateful for any information about the "friendship" between the Carrolls and the Lincolns other than the Lincolns attending the wedding of the Carroll daughter to Capt Griffin in December 1861.