The Pocket Watch that Mary Never Received

[Susan Higginbotham]

I was looking at an issue of Lincoln Lore from the 1940's when I came across a mention of this watch, which Lincoln supposedly planned to give to Mary but bestowed upon another lady after he and Mary ended their engagement. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I can actually see Lincoln doing something like this.

http://www.atimelyperspective.com/blog/2...-todd.html

https://historical.ha.com/itm/political/...26-25134.s

[RJNorton]

Susan, there was a second watch which was fraudulent.

Here is what is said about that one on the Rail Splitter website. The watch Susan cited is mentioned in the last paragraph.

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"Dan Morphy offered an intriguing Lincoln item in his June 9th sale. It was represented as the pocket watch that Abraham Lincoln gave to Mary Todd as the time of their on-again off-again courtship, engagement and marriage. The catalog description read:

“This is a historical 18K Gold pocket watch that was presented to Miss Mary Todd while courting between 1839 and 1842. The inscription reads, ‘To Miss Mary Todd-A Token of my Everlasting Devotion and Affection – Abe Lincoln’. The watch was mentioned in Abe Lincoln’s archives. It was owned by the Todd family for a number of years, and then sold privately to Mr. Ready where it has been for the last several decades. The watch itself has a very elaborate gold design with three colors of gold to create flowers. The watch is not in working order, as it needs a new chain. The watch comes with a letter of authenticity from the North Missouri Historical Society, and a report from the EMTEC providing proof of the age of the inscription.”

There are a lot of “loose ends” associated with this watch, besides the fact that no provenance from the time of its presentation or shortly thereafter came with the lot. The biggest “blip” is that Lincoln never referred to himself as “Abe”. That nickname lacked dignity and propriety. He never signed any of his letters or documents in that manner.

What exactly are “Abe Lincoln’s archives?” A specific notation would help. The letter from Fred Schwartz, the “senior metallurgical engineer” at EMTEC of Denver asserts that the “engraving is not of recent origin.” Fine.. all that means is that the engraving wasn’t done in the last twenty years. It tells you when it “wasn’t” done, not when it “was” done.

The letter of authenticity from Jerry L. Davis on the letterhead of the “North Missouri Historical Society” of Kahoka, Missouri is a joke. A search on google for “North Missouri Historical Society” comes back with no results. There are historical societies in Kahoka, but not this one. Mr. Davis makes all sorts of wild claims, including that he owns the only COMPLETE copy in Lincoln’s hand of the Emancipation Proclamation, that he owns a pen that Lincoln carried and used from 1858 until his death and which was used exclusively for all the documents he composed, that he owns a marble desk set given to Lincoln in 1864 by the City of New York, and that he owns a Lincoln watch “that was part of the O. H. Oldroid [sic] collection.” He says that since his watch and Larry Ready’s watch (the one being sold here) are the same size, with the same case, housed in similar boxes, that both are therefore authentic Lincoln watches.

The offering also fails to take into account another Lincoln presentation watch… the one in the Henry Luhrs Collection sold by Heritage Auctions in 2007 for $71,700. That watch had extensive documentation and the presentation engraving was signed “A.L.”, not “Abe Lincoln”. With an estimate of $30,000-$60,000, this ticking time bomb was passed."

[Susan Higginbotham]

Thanks, Roger!

[RJNorton]

(05-25-2017 09:47 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

My personal feelings on this are mixed. Anything is possible. The name Mary Curtis was new to me I think; I did not know Lincoln knew a lady named Mary Curtis. Also, as far as I know, Lincoln was still in debt due to the failure of the Lincoln-Berry store in New Salem. (He called it the "national debt.") I do not know how much a watch like that cost at that time, but I am a little surprised he was able to afford it. Did Lincoln really buy this watch for Mary Todd? I wonder...

I have not seen Lincoln's name connected to Chatterton's other than for the wedding ring in 1842. Was there another store where he could possibly have purchased this? I have not read of it if there were.

Can anyone post information on the alleged friendship of a Mary Curtis and Abraham Lincoln?

[Susan Higginbotham]

According to the Heritage Auctions article, Mary Curtis was a young lady from Kentucky who met Lincoln on several occasions while she was staying with the Butler family. It doesn't sound as if he could have known her that well.

[Gene C]

The story, while interesting, doesn't sound realistic to me. Lincoln, who is heavily in debt, giving a woman he barely knows an expensive watch he had engraved for Mary, even if they had broken up? Then again, if they had broken up, what good was the watch to him anymore?
Which of course, reminds me of a song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKTOizdhan8

We discussed a Lincoln watch previously, I think it may have been the 2nd watch that was fraudulent
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...h#pid51373

In this case, I'm sure the auctioneer wants to present the watch in the most favorable circumstances to get a good price, while leaving a loop hole to protect the auction companies reputation.
Buyer beware!

[Eva Elisabeth]

"To Miss Mary Todd-A Token of my Everlasting Devotion and Affection – Abe Lincoln" also despite the "Abe" doesn't sound like a wording by him to me.

[RJNorton]

(05-26-2017 02:58 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  "To Miss Mary Todd-A Token of my Everlasting Devotion and Affection – Abe Lincoln" also despite the "Abe" doesn't sound like a wording by him to me.

I agree. IMO, if either of these watches is legitimate, I would think it's the one Susan found in Lincoln Lore. To be honest, I have doubts on that one, too.