Removal of Confederate Monuments

[brtmchl]

While thinking about this topic I came across an account of a former slave, who became a legislator in Mississippi. I had remembered hearing about this speech after the shooting incident in South Carolina and the removal of the flag a few years ago. There are many blogs with people arguing about this speech. Some calling Harris an Uncle Tom and demanding proof that he even existed, some arguing that Southerners keep trying to trot out "so-called black confederates," one wrote "So this one Black MS Legislator is evidence that southern blacks in general supported the southern slave society?" Still others would claim that he is an example "slave mentality."

Again I think emotion plays heavily on topics of the Civil War. Slavery is a topic that people cannot digest in today's society. Possibly because we try not to talk about it because we are so offended by it. Our culture has rightfully grown to be sickened by the thought of owning another human and forcing our will upon them. But, this wasn't the way of the world back then, and to be honest there are parts of the world today were slavery still exists. http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/

In my opinion Harris is simply paying honor to those who would fight. The monument was for them, NOT a cause or a justification for a cause. The monuments were for the people who took up arms for something (which may have been different for everyone) that they believed in and would die for. We disgrace them and mock them when we remove these monuments or even worse when we disrupt their final resting place because its no longer politically correct for them to lie in certain cemeteries. These were Americans, these were our ancestors.

It's Ok that we feel shame for bad periods in our history, Instead of erasing it and pretending that it didn't exist we can choose to view these as our evolution and be proud that we rose above it even as a young nation.

Lincoln wanted a peaceful reconciliation. He wanted to forgive immediately after the War. Why can't we 150+ years later?


In 1890 John F. Harris, a former slave before the war, a former confederate soldier during the war and a Republican legislator from the Mississippi House of Representatives after the war, voted in favor of the erection of a Confederate monument on the capitol square in Jackson, Mississippi.
Hearing opposition to the monument, by a fellow representative who was the son of a Confederate veteran, a sick Mr. Harris spoke on the House floor.

"Mr. Speaker! I have arisen here in my place to offer a few words on the bill. I have come from a sick bed … Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come. But, Sir, I could not rest quietly in my room without … contributing … a few remarks of my own. I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentleman form Marshall County. I am sorry that any son of a soldier should go on record as opposed to the erection of a monument in honor of the brave dead. And, Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines and in the Seven Days’ fighting around Richmond, the battlefield covered with the mangled forms of those who fought for their country and their country’s honor, he would not have made that speech.
When the news came that the South had been invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed, and they made no requests for monuments … But they died, and their virtues should be remembered. Sir, I went with them. I too, wore the gray … We stayed four long years, and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet. … I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions. … I want it to be known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of the bill to erect a monument in honor of the Confederate dead.

[Gene C]

The state government in Alabama is taking a different view on the Confederate Monument situation from many of other communities and states.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alabama-lawma...57454.html

I wonder if it will be challenged in a Federal Court?

[JMadonna]

(05-21-2017 06:13 AM)Gene C Wrote:  The state government in Alabama is taking a different view on the Confederate Monument situation from many of other communities and states.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alabama-lawma...57454.html

I wonder if it will be challenged in a Federal Court?

Doubtful, the government can make any law they want regarding public property. Of course the next government can change that law.

[L Verge]

This whole thing is totally ridiculous, and I say that not to "save the monuments" (even though I want them preserved where they have stood for so many years), but to consider the harm that this p.c. movement by a few is inflicting on the nation.

I see great strides that have been made in race relations in my area just since the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s. To me, this silliness has nothing to do with the important issues of that era. This is a radical movement by many folks who have never experienced the problems of their forefathers, both black and white - and we won't even mention the American Indians.

I see a huge wedge being driven between the races once again that will set us back another fifty years or so. I heard a black minister say years ago that the white man will only stand for all these demands and messing with his heritage just so long. He asked if the black man was ready for the retaliation that was to come. Frankly, I'm afraid of that retaliation, no matter where it starts.

I don't think that either side realizes that this might be driven by outside forces that are determined to bring down our democracy no matter what. I hope I haven't painted a bull's eye on my forehead by saying this, but be careful of what you wish for when you make all your demands (or when you cave in to others' demands).

[Gene C]

Does any one know if this statue in Baltimore is still there?

http://www.shorpy.com/node/21903?size=_original#caption

Photo from Shorpy.com a interesting web site of old photo's

[RJNorton]

(05-25-2017 01:57 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Does any one know if this statue in Baltimore is still there?

Yes.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_R...yland.html

[L Verge]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/25/new-...monuments/ Also this quote from a post on civilwartalk:

I have no doubt that those who want to remove the statues in question really do find them offensive and think that removing them will further inclusion and tolerance.

I merely disagree with the removal because, as I pointed out in another thread, history is not pretty; and by removing the statues in question we are all squandering an opportunity to use the statues (something offensive to some) to teach history (something positive to all).

[Gene C]

In Kentucky, Confederate statue moved.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/30/con...tucky.html

Just around the corner from this fine eating establishment
http://www.jailhousepizza.com/index.html

[L Verge]

(05-30-2017 04:12 PM)Gene C Wrote:  In Kentucky, Confederate statue moved.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/30/con...tucky.html

Just around the corner from this fine eating establishment
http://www.jailhousepizza.com/index.html

Do you think the restaurant will deliver to Clinton, Maryland?

As for the statue, another example of political stupidity; but I do like the attitude of the new home's mayor.

[L Verge]

While I am still very torn over the issue of removing historic monuments, one of our volunteers at Surratt House just sent me the following video on Mayor Landrieu's speech in reference to the New Orleans situation. It is well-worth watching (about 20 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ29Uwz5yPU

[JMadonna]

Was reading a confederate soldiers reminisces of the war and thought this speech was appropriate for the subject.

If Daniel Webster could say that the Bunker Hill monument was not erected “to perpetuate hostility to Great Britain,” much more can we say that the monuments we have erected, and will yet erect, in our Southland, to the memory of our dead heroes, are not intended to perpetuate the angry passions of the Civil War, or to foster or keep alive any feeling of hostility to our brethren of other parts of the Union. No; but these monuments are erected, and these great assemblages of our surviving veterans are held, in simple loyalty to the best and purest dictates of the human heart.

The people that forgets its heroic dead is already dying at the heart; and we believe it will make for the strength and the glory of the United States if the sentiments that animate us to-day shall be perpetuated, generation after generation.

McKim, Randolph H.. A Soldier's Recollections [Illustrated Edition]: leaves from the diary of a young Confederate, with an oration on the motives and aims of the soldiers of the South (Kindle Locations 4239-4240). Golden Springs Publishing. Kindle Edition.

[L Verge]

Too bad that some of our noble "heroes" who bend to the slightest wishes of "activists" today don't read this -- and, more importantly, understand it...

[JMadonna]

(06-20-2017 07:48 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Too bad that some of our noble "heroes" who bend to the slightest wishes of "activists" today don't read this -- and, more importantly, understand it...

Speaking of which:

The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation has started a petition on change.org calling for the NBA to remove Dennis Rodman from the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame following his visit and defense of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un.

[Gene C]

To separate articles in one day.

The are at it in St. Louis
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/20/st-...judge.html

Statue removed to cemetery in Orlando
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/20/orl...moved.html

[L Verge]

One of my volunteers knows that I am disenchanted with the Washington Post, so she saves anything history related that they might publish. A recent article from "John Kelly's Washington" feature described a wonderful club of retirees in northern Virginia suburbs who meet every Friday morning at a McDonald's in Fairfax City to hash out the Civil War over their hash browns. With that area being Mosby territory, JEB Stuart territory, and lots of little things related to the war, there is a lot to be discussed.

The very last item in the article, however, is what we should all pay attention to. When asked about the arguments over what to do about the flags and statues that honor the Confederacy, one gentleman quoted Winston Churchill: "Those who start an argument between the past and the present lose the future." That should be posted on billboards across the nation, imo.