Extra Credit Questions

[Eva Elisabeth]

Excellent, Laurie. I think those items on the mantlepiece are pitchers. It would be difficult to hit the opening when using them as spittoons. Here are some impressions of what spittoons look like:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spittoon#

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As for the candlesticks - I'd think "candelabra"? Or "chandeliers"? ("Candelabrum" would actually only apply to the one with arms.) ["Candelabrum" is singular.]

[L Verge]

Those particular types of Victorian lighting have a much more sophisticated title, Eva. Candelabra (um), I believe, refer to less ornate candlesticks. Chandeliers hang from ceilings. The term I'm looking for is synonymous with the style of these very decorative items.

[Eva Elisabeth]

We also call them "Girandolen", don't know if there's a similar English word?!

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Actually they look like late 19th century (Jugendstil - German art nouveau) - 1920 to me, not older.

[L Verge]

The English name for these is the same as the French name "girandole" (Italians say "girandola"), where they originated in the 1700s. Your guess as to age is probably wrong because these were very popular in America during the Rococo Revival era (mainly 1840-1870).

I learned about these forty years ago when a two-piece set was donated to Surratt House. Unfortunately, they were just too elegant for our simple parlor, and we arranged for them to go to a more appropriate historic house.

BTW: Some Victorian earrings were fashioned along the same lines and called girandole earrings. There were/are others called chandelier earrings.

Hope we haven't bored our gentlemen to tears with this female jabber...

[Eva Elisabeth]

(My next guess would have been Empire style, which would have been closer as for the timing.)

[L Verge]

I think the Empire Period (especially in America) would be prior to the Lincolns even getting married. Empire, Georgian, Regency, and even Directoire Periods in Europe coincide with the American Federal Period of 1780-1835. All of these periods took their names from the politicos on the continent (Napoleon and George III primarily). The Federal Period here in the U.S., of course, was tied to politics also -- the establishment of our own government.

The Lincolns' marriage and later setting up home on Eighth Street coincides with the rise of the Rococo Revival here, and I think Mrs. Lincoln would have been following the new trends in furniture just as she did in fashion.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Yes, Empire was early 19th century. I hadn't much "linked" Rokoko to glass/crystal, rather to porcelain like this:
http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/...Rokoko.jpg
Very interesting, Laurie. The Lincoln candlesticks look quite the upper class interior.

[L Verge]

(02-01-2017 06:13 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Yes, Empire was early 19th century. I hadn't much "linked" Rokoko to glass/crystal, rather to porcelain like this:
http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/...Rokoko.jpg
Very interesting, Laurie. The Lincoln candlesticks look quite the upper class interior.

What a beautiful piece; is it Dresden by any chance?

Rococo Revival can also be linked to furniture. The famous chairs, sofas, and tables done by John Belter were wildly popular in the later years of the 19th century.

Back to china and glass, check out the gorgeous lusters (lustres) of the same era. Their beautiful colors, etchings, etc. are superior to the girandoles in my opinion.

Question for those who know the cultural atmosphere of Springfield in the 1840s and 50s: Were the Lincolns considered middle-class, upper middle-class, a cut above the average populations of the town? Would their home set the standard of graciousness for their surrounding neighbors, or was it considered very similar to everyone else"s?

With Mary coming from the more affluent Todds, do you think she would have stretched the family's dollars to buy nicer things than what her friends and family had?

[Eva Elisabeth]

The AOL site calls it upper-middle-class:
https://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lin.../homes.htm
I think it "developed" more towards upper class over the years, especially with the second floor enlargement. Such as the wallpaper looks pretty luxurious to me. I would think however the Edwards' home (upper class) still ranked higher, but am curious what other forum members know/think.

The bowl is Plaue (Thuringia) porcelain.

[Gene C]

They would be considered upper middle class. Once Mary added the second story to their house, it was as nice as any on their street, and it's a nice neighborhood. Even though it still lacks a master bathroom inside, it has a two seater outside. Hardwood floors throughout and plaster walls. Before they moved to Washington, they bought a brand new, state of the art, kitchen stove.
It now has an automatic sprinkler system (inside) and a central station fire and burglar alarm. I think it now even has central heating and air.
Nice furniture, even a couch just for Fido.

Do we know who usually handled the families finances, paid the bills? Was it Abraham or Mary?

[RJNorton]

(02-01-2017 08:04 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Do we know who usually handled the families finances, paid the bills? Was it Abraham or Mary?

Gene, I do not know, but there's an old tale that Abraham did not know about the second story addition. We are to believe that Mary had this construction done on her own while Lincoln was away riding the circuit. When he finally came home he asked a person walking by, "Stranger, do you know where Lincoln lives?" This story seems to be taken seriously by a few authors I've read. Does anyone believe Mary had this done without his knowledge?

[Eva Elisabeth]

I have been searching like crazy but cannot find - there's a statement (might have been in Donald's "Lincoln" - haven't got my copy here) Mary made to (I believe) her sister Elizabeth of the essence that (referring to Springfield life) she was free to get all she wanted and her (Mary's) husband never had interfered with anything. Maybe someone knows?

[Gene C]

I was reading something similar recently, it's been mostly about her spending in the White House, with Lincoln to preoccupied with the war to pay much attention to how much she was spending.

[RJNorton]

The senator who cast the deciding vote in the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson was (at the time of the vote) boarding with the family of a person who has been mentioned on this forum. With whose family was he boarding?

[Gene C]

Vinnie Ream's