Lincoln & Stanton

[Craig Hipkins]

Lincoln had a sort of contentious relationship with his Secretary of War before he became President. Stanton gave Lincoln the cold shoulder while the two men were working on the "Reaper Case" in 1855. Stanton all but ignored Lincoln referring to him as "a long, lank creature, from Illinois, wearing a dirty linen duster for a coat."

It has always boggled my mind why Lincoln chose Stanton to be his Secretary of War after Cameron left. I believe that Lincoln's first choice was Joseph Holt, but he was pressured into picking Stanton. I wonder if Seward had anything to do with this?

Craig

[RJNorton]

Craig, this does not answer your question. But, for some reason, what sticks in my mind are Stanton's strong emotions concerning death. I have a book entitled "Lincoln's War Cabinet" by Burton J. Hendrick, and the author devotes an entire page to the topic. Hendrick states, "When his (Stanton's) emotions were deeply stirred he could act almost as a madman. At certain crises, indeed, doubts of his sanity were widespread."

Here are three examples from Hendrick's book:

(1) In his early days Stanton developed a semi-romantic relationship with the daughter of his landlady. The girl's name was Anna Howard. She died suddenly from cholera and was buried quickly. Stanton was horrified and refused to believe it. He refused to believe she was dead and thought she was buried alive. He rushed to the graveyard and exhumed the body. He convinced himself by personal inspection that the girl was indeed dead.

(2) The death of his first child, a baby girl, so affected him that after she had been buried for a time, he had her disinterred, enclosed in a metal casket, and placed on the mantelpiece in his bedroom where it was kept for several years.

(3) After his first wife's death, the Supreme Court had to suspend its sessions for a month. Stanton was arguing several cases before the court. But the court was suspended because Stanton would not leave his dead wife's grave. Every night he would put her nightcap and gown on her bed and sit beside them weeping for hours.

[LincolnMan]

I have read those things about Stanton, as well. Sounds very weird to me sitting at my breakfast table in 2012. Was it so strange of a thing in his day?

[Bill Richter]

I believe that Lincoln knew Stanton from before the war in the McCormick Reaper Case, in which Stanton treated him shabbily. Maybe Lincoln realized that if the Union were to win the war he needed a real a--hole to run the war department and get rid of the constant excuses and fraud that plagued his predecessor Cameron. Stanton surely did that!

[L Verge]

I've always thought that Stanton and Grant were two of the best things to ever happen to Lincoln.

[Thomas Thorne]

Lincoln and Stanton had a good cop/bad cop relationship. There are instances in which Lincoln lamented his inability to please a caller by citing's Stanton's opposition. On other occasions Stanton,not wishing to diminish his reputation as the ferocious Mars,would refer petitioners to Lincoln,knowing Lincoln would be merciful.

The two were personally close enough that they and their wives spent time together at the Soldiers Home. An attack by Confederate Cavalry might have scooped up both of them.
Tom

[JMadonna]

(09-22-2012 09:50 PM)Craig Hipkins Wrote:  It has always boggled my mind why Lincoln chose Stanton to be his Secretary of War after Cameron left. I believe that Lincoln's first choice was Joseph Holt, but he was pressured into picking Stanton. I wonder if Seward had anything to do with this?

Craig

Most definitely Seward recommended Stanton highly. While working in the Buchanan administration as AG, Stanton not only kept Buchanan from caving but also related the ongoing cabinet discussions to Seward so that he could apply pressure from the congress.

When Seward proposed impeaching Buchanan if he surrendered Fort Sumter it was because of info passed from Stanton.

Finding a loyal and competent Union man for Secretary of War after the incompetence of Floyd and Cameron was a critical task and Stanton proved to be a godsend for Lincoln.

[Jim Garrett]

As so very well covered in "Team of Rivals", AL had that inate ability to remove his emotion and set aside previous slights and see someone for their talents and abilities. It seems that by the end of the war, Stanton and AL had developed an incredibly close relationship. I think that Stanton viewed himself and AL as the team that won the war and saved the Union. Stanton may have been the most affected by AL's death, outside of the immediate family. The before mentioned prior examples show someone emotionally ill-equiped to handle such tragedies, I bet he was devastated by the tragic loss of someone who became one of his dearest friends and ally. There could be a real good article in hand for the courier on the emotional dependency Stanton may have developed for the original ape.

[L Verge]

I'm ready to print if someone is ready to write!

[RJNorton]

(09-23-2012 05:42 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote:  As so very well covered in "Team of Rivals", AL had that inate ability to remove his emotion and set aside previous slights and see someone for their talents and abilities. It seems that by the end of the war, Stanton and AL had developed an incredibly close relationship. I think that Stanton viewed himself and AL as the team that won the war and saved the Union. Stanton may have been the most affected by AL's death, outside of the immediate family. The before mentioned prior examples show someone emotionally ill-equiped to handle such tragedies, I bet he was devastated by the tragic loss of someone who became one of his dearest friends and ally. There could be a real good article in hand for the courier on the emotional dependency Stanton may have developed for the original ape.

Dr. William Hanchett's closing sentences in The Lincoln Murder Conspiracies are as follows: "Lincoln would not have enjoyed the extravagant and pseudoreligious praise being offered in his name by so many Americans. Possibly he would have been reminded of some anecdote by which to deflate the absurdities of such exaggerations. But one suspects that if he could learn of the slush written about the suggested involvement of his secretary of war in his own death he would simply become angry."

[Craig Hipkins]

(09-23-2012 02:23 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  

(09-22-2012 09:50 PM)Craig Hipkins Wrote:  It has always boggled my mind why Lincoln chose Stanton to be his Secretary of War after Cameron left. I believe that Lincoln's first choice was Joseph Holt, but he was pressured into picking Stanton. I wonder if Seward had anything to do with this?

Craig

Most definitely Seward recommended Stanton highly. While working in the Buchanan administration as AG, Stanton not only kept Buchanan from caving but also related the ongoing cabinet discussions to Seward so that he could apply pressure from the congress.

When Seward proposed impeaching Buchanan if he surrendered Fort Sumter it was because of info passed from Stanton.

Finding a loyal and competent Union man for Secretary of War after the incompetence of Floyd and Cameron was a critical task and Stanton proved to be a godsend for Lincoln.

Jerry, This makes good sense. I believe that Buchanan wanted only to make it back to Pennsylvania in one piece. I guess the appointment of Stanton as War Secretery by Lincoln showed how much he valued Seward's opinion.

Craig

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(09-23-2012 04:00 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Craig, this does not answer your question. But, for some reason, what sticks in my mind are Stanton's strong emotions concerning death. I have a book entitled "Lincoln's War Cabinet" by Burton J. Hendrick, and the author devotes an entire page to the topic. Hendrick states, "When his (Stanton's) emotions were deeply stirred he could act almost as a madman. At certain crises, indeed, doubts of his sanity were widespread."

Here are three examples from Hendrick's book:

(1) In his early days Stanton developed a semi-romantic relationship with the daughter of his landlady. The girl's name was Anna Howard. She died suddenly from cholera and was buried quickly. Stanton was horrified and refused to believe it. He refused to believe she was dead and thought she was buried alive. He rushed to the graveyard and exhumed the body. He convinced himself by personal inspection that the girl was indeed dead.

(2) The death of his first child, a baby girl, so affected him that after she had been buried for a time, he had her disinterred, enclosed in a metal casket, and placed on the mantelpiece in his bedroom where it was kept for several years.

(3) After his first wife's death, the Supreme Court had to suspend its sessions for a month. Stanton was arguing several cases before the court. But the court was suspended because Stanton would not leave his dead wife's grave. Every night he would put her nightcap and gown on her bed and sit beside them weeping for hours.

Roger, I remember reading about Stanton's exhumation of his daughter and found it to be quite morbid. However, after further reflection I realized that I was looking through a 21st century perspective. People in the 19th century had a sort of resigned attitude toward death. I don't mean to say that they were not devestated when a loved one died, but it was rare in that day and age to live to a ripe old age as we expect to do today with modern medicine and such. My Great-Great-Great grandparents in the 1850s, in England, lost 5 children within a 3 year span. Only three lived to be adults. They must have been strong-willed to survive into their 70s. Another thing that was common in the 19th century that we would find appalling today was having photographs taken of dead loved ones.

[L Verge]

This will probably convince all of you that I come from a weird family, but my grandparents lost their first child in 1901 at the age of 22 months. Their second child was born six days after that death, and neither parent could readily accept the new baby. My uncle (#2) had to be given to a wet nurse for several weeks because my grandmother would not or could not bring herself to nurse him.

My grandfather mourned so deeply that nearly a year later he went to the family cemetery with a hired hand and dug up the dead baby. The child was perfectly preserved, but had turned coal black. Later people have said that the soil and the hand-dug brick vault probably accounted for the change in color. Luckily for our family, the baby was put back in the grave.

I have been well aware of photos of adults, mothers, and children being photographed in death. However, I was not prepared for the funeral of my husband's grandfather in the 1970s. Jeda was Russian and had emigrated to America to escape the Czar's draft. When he died, the family was very careful to get good photographs of him in his casket to send back to his relatives still in Russia. They told me that they needed to prove to his loved ones back there that he had been laid to rest in grand style. It was a symbol that he had been loved and cared for.

When you hear of "oddities" of death rituals within your own realm, it makes understanding Edwin Stanton and people of his era a little easier.

[DeniseW]

Just an aside here. I went to Hildene on Saturday, and noticed a picture of Stanton on a wall. Underneath it, a card stated that Stanton remained close to RTL for the remainder of his (Stanton's) life. Robert was what, 21 years old when his father was murdered? I found it moving that Stanton had stepped forward like that, and that Robert had memorialized Stanton with that picture. After all, Hildene was built about 36 years after Stanton died, so Robert was still holding respect for Stanton, many years later.

With Google as my friend, I found this on a website: "When Stanton died in 1869, Robert Todd Lincoln wrote the Secretary of War’s son, Edwin L. Stanton, that “when I recall the kindness of your father to me, when my father was lying dead and I felt utterly desperate, hardly able to realize the truth, I am as little able to keep my eyes from filling with tears as he was then." Robert would have been 26 years old when he wrote this note.

I wonder if Stanton took on a 'fatherly' role to RTL after AL's death? Has anyone ever read anything on this? Hildene's note seems to suggest there was an ongoing relationship after the assassination.

[JMadonna]

(09-24-2012 04:46 PM)Craig Hipkins Wrote:  Jerry, This makes good sense. I believe that Buchanan wanted only to make it back to Pennsylvania in one piece. I guess the appointment of Stanton as War Secretery by Lincoln showed how much he valued Seward's opinion.

Craig,
Lincoln already knew Stanton was competent, he didn't need Seward's opinion on that issue, what he was worried about was if Stanton could work with Lincoln as his boss.

Without Stanton's intransigence, Lincoln may have had no nation to preserve when he took office.

He confessed that he 'was sitting on all his pride' to appoint Stanton because he needed him. Within 3 months Stanton cleaned out unscrupulous contractors, southern sympathizers and had the army ready for the Spring of 1862 campaign.

[RJNorton]

Hi Denise. I think your speculation is spot-on. I think they remained close. In fact when Robert Lincoln got married on September 24, 1868, among the 30-35 guests in attendance were Mrs. Edwin Stanton and her son, Edwin L. "Ned" Stanton. Jason Emerson writes that Stanton's son, Edwin Jr., was Robert's close friend. Edwin Stanton himself would most likely have been at the ceremony except that he happened to be absent from Washington due to a speaking engagement in Ohio.