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SSlater · 07-27-2015, 11:35 PM

First I want to make you laugh. There is an old story about the lady who was in an accident. She called her lawyer, and his advice to her was "Don't say a word, and I'll have two eye-witnesses over there in 5 minutes. " In this case he sent 13. LOL
Surratt in Montreal, in early April was tugged in two directions, at the same time. First there was E. G. Lee who ordered him to Elmira and there was Booth who ordered him to Washington. No matter who asked first, Lee had the most "weight". By going to Elmira, he also had the company of Sarah. He had been hand in hand with her since March 25, in Washington. Shortly after their return, Lee wrote in his diary (Which I don't have), that he called Sarah in and told her to "Go home!", "that this is not the man for you". This timing, matches up exactly, with her relocation to New York City and her cohabitating with her husband, Rowan. (All dates are confirmed in her divorce papers.) Incidentally, she initiated the divorce proceedings, in May 65, with Rowan as the culprit, for cohabitating elsewhere.

HerbS · 07-28-2015, 06:19 AM

When females were involved with Surratt there wasn't much of a choice for Surratt to make!I feel that Sarah Slater was Surratt's big challenge as far as females go!

Susan Higginbotham · 07-28-2015, 07:36 AM

(07-27-2015 11:35 PM)SSlater Wrote: First I want to make you laugh. There is an old story about the lady who was in an accident. She called her lawyer, and his advice to her was "Don't say a word, and I'll have two eye-witnesses over there in 5 minutes. " In this case he sent 13. LOL
Surratt in Montreal, in early April was tugged in two directions, at the same time. First there was E. G. Lee who ordered him to Elmira and there was Booth who ordered him to Washington. No matter who asked first, Lee had the most "weight". By going to Elmira, he also had the company of Sarah. He had been hand in hand with her since March 25, in Washington. Shortly after their return, Lee wrote in his diary (Which I don't have), that he called Sarah in and told her to "Go home!", "that this is not the man for you". This timing, matches up exactly, with her relocation to New York City and her cohabitating with her husband, Rowan. (All dates are confirmed in her divorce papers.) Incidentally, she initiated the divorce proceedings, in May 65, with Rowan as the culprit, for cohabitating elsewhere.

Are you referring to the "Miss Young" mentioned in Lee's diary (which I have)? If so, I doubt she's Sarah, because Miss Young didn't leave Canada until August 25, 1865. Surratt had taken Miss Young to the theater earlier in August.

I'm happy to send a PDF of the diary (missing one page which I overlooked in the scanning process) to anyone who's interested. It's held at Duke University.

SSlater · 07-28-2015, 03:46 PM

(07-28-2015 07:36 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:
(07-27-2015 11:35 PM)SSlater Wrote: First I want to make you laugh. There is an old story about the lady who was in an accident. She called her lawyer, and his advice to her was "Don't say a word, and I'll have two eye-witnesses over there in 5 minutes. " In this case he sent 13. LOL
Surratt in Montreal, in early April was tugged in two directions, at the same time. First there was E. G. Lee who ordered him to Elmira and there was Booth who ordered him to Washington. No matter who asked first, Lee had the most "weight". By going to Elmira, he also had the company of Sarah. He had been hand in hand with her since March 25, in Washington. Shortly after their return, Lee wrote in his diary (Which I don't have), that he called Sarah in and told her to "Go home!", "that this is not the man for you". This timing, matches up exactly, with her relocation to New York City and her cohabitating with her husband, Rowan. (All dates are confirmed in her divorce papers.) Incidentally, she initiated the divorce proceedings, in May 65, with Rowan as the culprit, for cohabitating elsewhere.

Are you referring to the "Miss Young" mentioned in Lee's diary (which I have)? If so, I doubt she's Sarah, because Miss Young didn't leave Canada until August 25, 1865. Surratt had taken Miss Young to the theater earlier August.

I'm happy to send a P St Lawrence Register was not DF of the diary (missing one page which I overlooked in the scanning process) to anyone who's interested. It's held at Duke University.

I contacted Duke sometime ago and they said that the Diary was not available. Has the situation changed? I got a similar answer from Canada - that the St Lawrence Register was not available. I wanted to copy The Surratt House copy of the Register, and their machine was broken. I asked if I could borrow the Surratt House copy and have it put on a disk, at my expense, and that was denied.
I do have a Surratt House copy of the Register of "Selected" names.
But, obviously, that does not contain ALL names. This has been a weak spot in all my research. I think I start all over, to see what is available.

Susan Higginbotham · 07-28-2015, 05:55 PM

(07-28-2015 03:46 PM)SSlater Wrote:
(07-28-2015 07:36 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:
(07-27-2015 11:35 PM)SSlater Wrote: First I want to make you laugh. There is an old story about the lady who was in an accident. She called her lawyer, and his advice to her was "Don't say a word, and I'll have two eye-witnesses over there in 5 minutes. " In this case he sent 13. LOL
Surratt in Montreal, in early April was tugged in two directions, at the same time. First there was E. G. Lee who ordered him to Elmira and there was Booth who ordered him to Washington. No matter who asked first, Lee had the most "weight". By going to Elmira, he also had the company of Sarah. He had been hand in hand with her since March 25, in Washington. Shortly after their return, Lee wrote in his diary (Which I don't have), that he called Sarah in and told her to "Go home!", "that this is not the man for you". This timing, matches up exactly, with her relocation to New York City and her cohabitating with her husband, Rowan. (All dates are confirmed in her divorce papers.) Incidentally, she initiated the divorce proceedings, in May 65, with Rowan as the culprit, for cohabitating elsewhere.

Are you referring to the "Miss Young" mentioned in Lee's diary (which I have)? If so, I doubt she's Sarah, because Miss Young didn't leave Canada until August 25, 1865. Surratt had taken Miss Young to the theater earlier August.

I'm happy to send a P St Lawrence Register was not DF of the diary (missing one page which I overlooked in the scanning process) to anyone who's interested. It's held at Duke University.
I contacted Duke sometime ago and they said that the Diary was not available. Has the situation changed? I got a similar answer from Canada - that the St Lawrence Register was not available. I wanted to copy The Surratt House copy of the Register, and their machine was broken. I asked if I could borrow the Surratt House copy and have it put on a disk, at my expense, and that was denied.
I do have a Surratt House copy of the Register of "Selected" names.
But, obviously, that does not contain ALL names. This has been a weak spot in all my research. I think I start all over, to see what is available.

I accessed the diary at Duke about a year ago. They have both the actual diary and a photocopy--I scanned the latter. I believe UNC-Chapel Hill had a photocopy as well at one time, but it got de-accessioned.

SSlater · (This post was last modified: 07-29-2015 02:05 PM by SSlater.)

There seems to be some confusion as to why each person, in this drama, was where they were, and why they were there, and what they did. So, here's a brief record of Slater - Surratt- Booth, from mid-March to mid-April. (At least I will try to be "brief."
Sarah was in Montreal, with Thompson. Surratt was in Washington. Surratt gets a wire that asks him to meet Sarah in NYC. (She can travel from Montreal to NYC, unescorted, because it is a Through-train0. But, in NYC she has to detrain, pass through town, cross the Hudson, and get to Jersey City, to catch the Washington train.) In those days , young ladies did not lug their baggage and proceed unaccompanied, to the next State - even if she is dressed as a Widow.

However, Surratt couldn't make it. So, it just happens that Booth is in New York. Here, it is IMPLIED that he brought her to D.C.

Anyhow ,she gets to H Street and is met by Surratt. He takes her to the Potomac. At this point another guy was to escort her to Richmond. (I think his name was Barry) But he wasn't there. So, Surratt took her to Richmond. They are there April 28/29.

Before I proceed, do you, feel some reluctance by Surratt, to participate in the mission? Either he didn't want to be with Sarah, or he didn't want to leave D.C. I conclude that he was more loyal to his assignments issued by Richmond, than to a request from "someone" else.

Now, the two of them are in Richmond. They finish their work here and set out for Canada. They spend a little time in D.C. and leave for Canada, arriving April 6+/-.

B.G. Edwin G. Lee has been assigned to Canada. A story has been concocted, that he is to replace Thompson. We later learn that Lee is to raise an Army of Escaped Prisoners, and fight R. E. Lee from the North.

E. G. Lee gives Surratt an assignment to go to Elmira and "Case" the Prison there. (IMO Sarah had nothing to do, so she tagged along with Surratt to Elmira). (They had to be "holding hands" by now) .They hang-out in Elmira, until they hear of Lincoln's Assassination. Up to this point Surratt did not want to be seen. Now, he wants to be seen.. So, he prances around Elmira in his silly Garibaldi Suit, and lets certain people know he it there, - all the town knew he was there ,but not the authorities.

When it is established that He is in Elmira, he plans his return to Canada, with his report on the prison. It's Saturday or Sunday by now. He heads NORTH to Cananiauga (Spelling???) where he can catch a train going EAST, toward Albany. - but trains did not run on Sundays, at that time, in New York. When he did get on a train, off they go. You can read about the rest of the trip in Baker's "History of the U, S. Secret Service."

Roger, does this answer your confusion about why and when Surratt acted as he did?
Tell me what you think. PLEEZE!

E. G. Lee didn't "Fight Lee", OOPS! He fought Grant. SORRY

HerbS · 07-29-2015, 03:34 PM

John Surratt went to Easter Sunday Mass in Canandaigua,NY!

SSlater · 07-29-2015, 04:19 PM

(07-29-2015 03:34 PM)HerbS Wrote: John Surratt went to Easter Sunday Mass in Canandaigua,NY!

Thanx Herb. I was working from memory, and that didn't show.
The important item here is the fact that the trains didn't run, on Sunday, so he spent more time here than he intended. I have written to the RR Historic people to see if I can recreate the RR Time Schedule to Washington. New York trains could not run on Pennsylvania RR tracks, Different gauges. Likewise in New Jersey. The train in Elmira, going South was the Northern Central. You can find the exact route to Baltimore , on GOOGLE- but not a time-table.

Gene C · 07-29-2015, 06:01 PM

My understanding was that Edwin Lee was to replace Thompson, who leaders in Richmond did not trust, and not happy with.
Lee's health was really poor with tuberculosis, and doubtful if he could lead troops in the field.

My source is "This Awful Drama" by Alexandra Lee Levin.

SSlater · 07-29-2015, 10:37 PM

(07-29-2015 06:01 PM)Gene C Wrote: My understanding was that Edwin Lee was to replace Thompson, who leaders in Richmond did not trust, and not happy with.
Lee's health was really poor with tuberculosis, and doubtful if he could lead troops in the field.

My source is "This Awful Drama" by Alexandra Lee Levin.

I do not doubt anything you have read, but I read a different scenario. Unfortunately, I can't be brief.
I did some serious research on Thompson, when I was hunting Sarah. I found that he worked well with Lee and stayed on to the end of the war, after which he went abroad with Catherine Ann (Kate).
He did run into some problems with the U.S. Government, over some proposed "Peace Talks" with Lincoln. A man named Halmor H. Emmons claimed that Lincoln asked him to arrange the talks,. This was not true. Emmons was moving on his own volition. It also involved a John F. Potter -(U. S. General Council in Canada). At any rate, Thompson decided that Lincoln really wanted to talk, so he went to Washington, under the code name "Kate Thompson". But Seward opposed any talks between the two governments. So it was called off.
All this came to the attention of the Government of Canada, and they proposed to evict Thompson for being an "Espionage Mastermind". Well, all this was overcome by events. The South lost. Thompson and Catherine went to Europe for a few years.
Maybe, that author was referring to these problems, but I have never found any bad feelings between the South and Thompson. Can you find a site, for the location of his remarks? Pleez!
PS. I think I wrote this story for the "Courier" some years ago. Can you help Laurie? Pleez.

Gene C · 07-30-2015, 06:30 AM

(07-29-2015 10:37 PM)SSlater Wrote: Maybe, that author was referring to these problems, but I have never found any bad feelings between the South and Thompson. Can you find a site, for the location of his remarks? Pleez!
PS. I think I wrote this story for the "Courier" some years ago. Can you help Laurie? Pleez.

I'll look through the book I mentioned, but it may take a day or two.
Susan H emailed me the diary of Edwin Lee. I haven't read any of it yet, but I will also quickly look through it.

L Verge · 07-31-2015, 10:14 AM

Question: I've been in the middle of correspondence that includes a Mosby researcher who is writing a bio of the partisan ranger. I noticed that he refers to Thomas Harney always as Frank Harney. I believe that "Francis" was Thomas's middle name. Do we need to be searching for him under "Frank" instead of "Thomas?"

SSlater · 07-31-2015, 03:04 PM

(07-31-2015 10:14 AM)L Verge Wrote: Question: I've been in the middle of correspondence that includes a Mosby researcher who is writing a bio of the partisan ranger. I noticed that he refers to Thomas Harney always as Frank Harney. I believe that "Francis" was Thomas's middle name. Do we need to be searching for him under "Frank" instead of "Thomas?"

Harney signed into Mosby's Co. H as Thomas F. Harney. So I would assume that any references to Harney, in that circle, would be Thomas.
I have searched for "Frank, but haven't found anything positive.
I found a "Hearney" in Blair County, but it went nowhere.
I think he went to Canada, that's where I'm looking now.
I think that Harney, (and Sarah) made no attempt to hide. I think they did their assignments, and went home, with no thoughts of having done something wrong, and a NEED to hide.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 08-03-2015 07:37 PM by Gene C.)

John, this is from the book "This Awful Drama" p. 152

"Apparently some disagreement arose between Edwin and Jacob Thompson concerning authority and the amount of money the Confederate government intended the latter to turn over to Edwin. After Edwin handed Thompson a memorandum concerning the funds, Thompson answered on April 9:
Last evening I estimated that I would return $30,000 until you could hear from Mr. Benjamin. On second thought, however, I am unwilling to consent to this arrangement because it will hamper my movements and might prevent me from availing myself a favorable opportunity of returning home - in other words, when I lave here I intend to be a free man.

Two days later Thompson, accompanied by his secretary, Will Cleary, left for Halifax."

(footnote for Thompson's reply; "Copied letter in manuscript book of unknown person, p30, Confederate Museum"

and on p. 157
"In the meantime, Jacob Thompson and his secretary Will Cleary, had reached Riviere du Loup when they learned of Lincoln's assassination. The electrifying news gave them pause. Bad weather then detained Thompson until late spring when he sailed from Halifax for Europe, carrying with him some 12,000 pounds of Confederate funds. Cleary decided to turn back and lived out the rest of the year in Canada.
(footnote - Biographical Directory of the American Congress, 1774-1971, 1810: Thomas "traveled throughout Europe in 1866 and 1867; settled in Memphis, Tenn., and managed the affairs of his extensive holdings; died in Memphis, March 24, 1885"

A little bit more later, I don't like to write long posts.

JMadonna · 08-03-2015, 07:59 PM

Any idea of whatever happened to Cleary? I could never find a trace of him after the war or any notes he may have left behind concerning Thompson and the money.