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SSlater · 07-23-2015, 02:34 PM

Laurie. RIGHT ON!! I worked on that schedule with them. I still have the material we used. That was when I figured how Sarah got from D.C. to Montreal. (Every river crossing _the Susquehanna -the Delaware, the Hudson. They even pulled trains thru Baltimore - with horses. every layover. etc. I can't share that material right now, because I am ready to Move (to Fredericksburg, by early Aug.). The point being, that this was not what someone said, or "I think". We got schedules from A National RR Historical Society, Philadelphia.
They even warned us that the RR was never on time, so add time to what you see.
PS. Someone called me to say that Gaddy has been released from the Hospital. I can't get an answer at home, so he must be visiting family.
(Martha doesn't drive.)

SSlater · 07-26-2015, 04:31 PM

In case anyone is interested, I found the guy who was with Harney on 31 March, 1865, It isn't important now, but it might be someday.
FRANCIS MARION BLACKWELL - born 8 July 1835, Pickens, GA.
died 26 April 1899 (or 1900), in Somervell, Tx, Buried there - Rock Creek CEM. He married Rebecca Caroline Hays born 1847, S.C. m 10 Oct 1869 in Pickens, GA. Enlisted March 1862 in GA (Co. C 43 GA. Inf)
1850 Census: Francis M. Blackwell b 1835 age 15 Cherokee, GA.
1880 Census: F.M. Blackwell 45 Pickens, GA
Caroline 32
Emma J. 8 (1872 - 1950)
William Monroe 5 ( 1875 - 1904)
Son (John H.) I m. (1881 -1948) married Ollie Pearl Sawyer. 1905. (They had one "living child". No records shown.)

HerbS · 07-26-2015, 05:31 PM

So,the ultimate question still remains-Was John Surratt in Emira and Canandaigua,NY after the assassination Lincoln? I say YES,and you all say?

SSlater · (This post was last modified: 07-26-2015 09:43 PM by SSlater.)

(07-26-2015 05:31 PM)HerbS Wrote: So,the ultimate question still remains-Was John Surratt in Emira and Canandaigua,NY after the assassination Lincoln? I say YES,and you all say?

Yes! Yes! Yes! Lafayette Baker has a story in his "History of the U. S. Secret Service", that describes Surratt's train ride from Elmira to Montreal. His agents are following Surratt. He is Identified outright. His traveling companion (Sarah) is described as a small man, all bundled up, and not allowed to talk to anyone. (She was less then 5'-0" tall). (Rowan was 5'-1" tall.)In Montreal, they signed into the St. Lawrence Hall, together. He is "John Harrison", she is "A. Raynaud" (That is her mother's maiden name.)
Baker's stories have never been shown to be lies. He is criticized, as being "Self Laudatory", but that's all.
Whenever, Sarah was in Montreal, she signed as "A. Raynaud" except on March 17th 1865, when she arrived at 3:00 AM. She used "Nettie Slater" at that time. (Look for her in Dec. 64, Mar. and April, '65)

If the Baker story is not available to everyone, I can copy it and Post it. It runs several pages, but we can work that out.

(07-26-2015 09:41 PM)SSlater Wrote:
(07-26-2015 05:31 PM)HerbS Wrote: So,the ultimate question still remains-Was John Surratt in Emira and Canandaigua,NY after the assassination Lincoln? I say YES,and you all say?
Yes! Yes! Yes! Lafayette Baker has a story in his "History of the U. S. Secret Service", that describes Surratt's train ride from Elmira to Montreal. His agents are following Surratt. He is Identified outright. His traveling companion (Sarah) is described as a small man, all bundled up, and not allowed to talk to anyone. (She was less then 5'-0" tall). (Rowan was 5'-1" tall.)In Montreal, they signed into the St. Lawrence Hall, together. He is "John Harrison", she is "A. Raynaud" (That is her mother's maiden name.)
They sign in on April 18th, 1865.
Baker's stories have never been shown to be lies. He is criticized, as being "Self Laudatory", but that's all.
Whenever, Sarah was in Montreal, she signed as "A. Raynaud" except on March 17th 1865, when she arrived at 3:00 AM. She used "Nettie Slater" at that time. (Look for her in Dec. 64, Mar. and April, '65)

If the Baker story is not available to everyone, I can copy it and Post it. It runs several pages, but we can work that out.

Gene C · 07-27-2015, 05:53 AM

The book is on line here. What page is it on?
https://archive.org/stream/historyofunit...4/mode/2up

HerbS · 07-27-2015, 06:31 AM

Thanks for your opinion SSlater! I have a copy of them both signed into the ledger at the St.Lawrence Hotel in Montreal as J.Harrison and A.Raynaud on April 18-1865.I can send[snail-mail] to those upon request!

John Fazio · 07-27-2015, 06:39 AM

(07-27-2015 06:31 AM)HerbS Wrote: Thanks for your opinion SSlater! I have a copy of them both signed into the ledger at the St.Lawrence Hotel in Montreal as J.Harrison and A.Raynaud on April 18-1865.I can send[snail-mail] to those upon request!

Herb:

I would like a copy. jcf@neohio.twcbc.com, Thanks.

John

HerbS · 07-27-2015, 07:55 AM

I will send[snail-mail] you a copy John!

Susan Higginbotham · 07-27-2015, 08:05 AM

(07-27-2015 07:55 AM)HerbS Wrote: I will send[snail-mail] you a copy John!

I'd like a copy, please. (And the copies of the registers for the other dates if anyone has them. mail at susanhigginbotham dot com. Thanks!

RJNorton · 07-27-2015, 08:06 AM

John S. and Herb, I am still on the fence. I just cannot understand how 13 witnesses could have testified that they saw Surratt in Washington on the 14th. I am sure some of these folks testified not "in good faith" but all 13? Just makes me wonder how this could have happened.

If I am reading Michael Shein's book correctly he says Surratt could have traveled from Elmira to Williamsport, then to Sunbury, then to Baltimore, then to Washington arriving as early as 5:45 A.M. on April 14th. (The author did not include a map of this possible route; I am just going by the text as I understand it.) In a footnote Shein adds that, "There might have been a Surratt look-alike parading about (Elmira) in a Garibaldi jacket into the afternoon of the 13th, while Surratt was already on the train."

John Fazio · 07-27-2015, 09:33 AM

(07-27-2015 08:06 AM)RJNorton Wrote: John S. and Herb, I am still on the fence. I just cannot understand how 13 witnesses could have testified that they saw Surratt in Washington on the 14th. I am sure some of these folks testified not "in good faith" but all 13? Just makes me wonder how this could have happened.

If I am reading Michael Shein's book correctly he says Surratt could have traveled from Elmira to Williamsport, then to Sunbury, then to Baltimore, then to Washington arriving as early as 5:45 A.M. on April 14th. (The author did not include a map of this possible route; I am just going by the text as I understand it.) In a footnote Shein adds that, "There might have been a Surratt look-alike parading about (Elmira) in a Garibaldi jacket into the afternoon of the 13th, while Surratt was already on the train."

Roger:

Charles Higham, in his Murdering Mr. Lincoln, also postulates a scenario whereby Surratt made his way to Washington from New York State in time to help Booth. As for the look-alike, I made the same suggestion in Decapitation, not without some evidence, though it is slim (see Decapitation, p.8 and The Lincoln Assassination (Edwards and Steers), p. 1226). In my opinion, these train scenarios are tortured and most unlikely. Recall that Surratt told McMillan that he left Montreal immediately in response to Booth's "letter" (read telegram) advising him that their plans had changed and that he was to return to Washington forthwith. Why, then, would he go to Elmira to patronize haberdashers and soak up the lower New York State scenery? It doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that he would go directly to Washington, which would put him there long before the 14th. This scenario accords with one of Ste. Marie's two accounts (the one he gave in court), but not with his Affidavit given in Italy, with the testimony of 13 or 14 witnesses at the trial and with Atzerodt's saying that Booth told him on the 14th that Surratt was going to help him and that he had just seen Surratt in the Herndon House. I's a tough nut to crack.

John

John Fazio · 07-27-2015, 10:35 AM

[i][i][i][i][i]

(07-27-2015 09:33 AM)John Fazio Wrote:
(07-27-2015 08:06 AM)RJNorton Wrote: John S. and Herb, I am still on the fence. I just cannot understand how 13 witnesses could have testified that they saw Surratt in Washington on the 14th. I am sure some of these folks testified not "in good faith" but all 13? Just makes me wonder how this could have happened.

If I am reading Michael Shein's book correctly he says Surratt could have traveled from Elmira to Williamsport, then to Sunbury, then to Baltimore, then to Washington arriving as early as 5:45 A.M. on April 14th. (The author did not include a map of this possible route; I am just going by the text as I understand it.) In a footnote Shein adds that, "There might have been a Surratt look-alike parading about (Elmira) in a Garibaldi jacket into the afternoon of the 13th, while Surratt was already on the train."

Roger:

Charles Higham, in his [i]Murdering Mr. Lincoln, also postulates a scenario whereby Surratt made his way to Washington from New York State in time to help Booth. As for the look-alike, I made the same suggestion in Decapitation, not without some evidence, though it is slim (see Decapitation, p.8 and The Lincoln Assassination (Edwards and Steers), p. 1226). In my opinion, these train scenarios are tortured and most unlikely. Recall that Surratt told McMillan that he left Montreal immediately in response to Booth's "letter" (read telegram) advising him that their plans had changed and that he was to return to Washington forthwith. Why, then, would he go to Elmira to patronize haberdashers and soak up the lower New York State scenery? It doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that he would go directly to Washington, which would put him there long before the 14th. This scenario accords with one of Ste. Marie's two accounts (the one he gave in court), but not with his Affidavit given in Italy, with the testimony of 13 or 14 witnesses at the trial and with Atzerodt's saying that Booth told him on the 14th that Surratt was going to help him and that he had just seen Surratt in the Herndon House. I's a tough nut to crack.

John

Roger:

Correction. It should have been "see Decapitation, p. 48".

John

RJNorton · 07-27-2015, 12:45 PM

Thanks, John. I have mentioned this before, but since I cannot figure out a logical answer, I think I'll mention it again. Smoot came to the boardinghouse on Wednesday, April 12th, looking for payment for his boat. Mary Surratt told Smoot to come back on Friday, April 14th, to see son John. According to Smoot, she whispered this information to him. What would motivate Mary to lie to Smoot? If she didn't expect John to be in town on the 14th, why would she say this?

John Fazio · 07-27-2015, 01:52 PM

(07-27-2015 12:45 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Thanks, John. I have mentioned this before, but since I cannot figure out a logical answer, I think I'll mention it again. Smoot came to the boardinghouse on Wednesday, April 12th, looking for payment for his boat. Mary Surratt told Smoot to come back on Friday, April 14th, to see son John. According to Smoot, she whispered this information to him. What would motivate Mary to lie to Smoot? If she didn't expect John to be in town on the 14th, why would she say this?

Roger:

I am familiar with the Smoot statement to which you refer and I think you have made an excellent point and one which is probative, if not conclusive, of Surratt's being in Washington on the 14th. If my theory is correct, however, he should already have been there. Perhaps he was elsewhere, but not in Canada and not in New York State, such as, for example, Richmond. The more we learn, the more he appears to have been in Washington on the 14th. Perhaps Ste. Marie was being truthful when he testified that Surratt had told him he was in Washington on the 14th and left that night by train disguised as an Englishman. In that case, how does one explain the testimony of the defense witnesses (four, as I recall) who put him in Elmira. If he was in Elmira, why did he go to Canandaigua, about 60 miles north and west of Elmira and therefore farther away from his alleged destination of Baltimore? As I say, tough nut to crack.

John

SSlater · 07-27-2015, 10:02 PM

Gene C. (Post 50) The Surratt/Slater story starts on Pg 555 and runs to 557. Then on558, The "Miss M" referred to was the daughter of Gen. John Bankhead Magruder. ("Prince John" was born in Port Royal, Va. in 1807). On Pg. 560 are some letters that Surratt wrote to his cousin Miss Bell Seaman. The next page is the division of the Reward money.
Magruder married Esther Henrietta von Kapff, they had 2 boys and two girls. The girls were Isabel 1833-1869, and Kate 1841-??. I don't know which one was the spy. The marriage was a bust, so they parted. She took the children to Europe until 1871, (jOHN DIED 1871).