Extra Credit Questions

[RJNorton]

This is Robert T. Lincoln. Where was he when this photo was taken?

[Joe Di Cola]

(01-20-2015 03:13 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  This is Robert T. Lincoln. Where was he when this photo was taken?

On a trip out in Yellowstone with President Chester Alan Arthur in 1883.

[RJNorton]

Brilliant, Joe! That's correct. This was in 1883 when RTL was President Arthur's Secretary of War.

From http://www.gutenberg.org/files/42112/42112-8.txt

1. John Schuyler Crosby, Governor of Montana Territory; 2. Michael V. Sheridan, Lieutenant-Colonel and Military Secretary; 3. Philip H. Sheridan, Lieutenant-General, U. S. Army; 4. Anson Stager, Brigadier-General, U. S. Volunteers; 5. W. P. Clark, Captain Second Cavalry, U. S. Army; 6. Chester A. Arthur, President of the United States; 7. Dan. G. Rollins, Surrogate of New York; 8. James F. Gregory, Lieutenant-Colonel and Aide-de-camp; 9. Robert T. Lincoln, Secretary of War; 10. George G. Vest, United States Senator from Missouri.

The most elaborate expedition that ever passed through this region took place in August, 1883. It included among its members the President of the United States, the Secretary of War, the Lieutenant-General of the Army, a United States Senator, and several other distinguished officers and civilians. The interesting part of the journey lay between Fort Washakie, Wyo., and the Northern Pacific Railroad at Cinnabar, Mont. The party traveled entirely on horseback, accompanied by one of the most complete pack trains ever organized in this or any other country, and escorted by a full troop of cavalry.

Couriers were stationed every twenty miles with fresh relays, and by this means communication was daily had with the outside world. The whole distance traveled was 350 miles, through some of the wildest, most rugged, and least settled portions of the west. No accident or drawback occurred to mar the pleasure of the expedition. The great pastime _en route_ was trout fishing, in which the President and Senator Vest were acknowledged leaders. The phenomenal "catches" of these distinguished sportsmen might pass into history as typical "fish stories," were they not vouched for by the sober record of official dispatches, and the unerring evidence of photographer Haynes' camera. The elaborate equipment of this expedition, the eminent character of its _personnel_, and the evident responsibility resting upon those who conducted it, attracted a great deal of attention at the time, and gave it a prominent place in the annals of Western Wyoming.

[L Verge]

Someone please tell me who the good-looking Philip H. Sheridan is in the middle of the back row because it is not the Civil War Sheridan who destroyed the Shenandoah Valley. Also, the "real" Sheridan didn't marry until after the war, and his only son and namesake wasn't born until 1880. Is this handsome man a nephew? Is the Michael V. Sheridan beside him his father and uncle of the CW general?

Don't tell Rick Smith and Wild Bill, but I have two, beautiful, wooden shelves in my house that are supported by carvings of Sheridan and Grant done by a Union veteran who served under Sheridan (and hence under Grant).

The gentleman identified as James Gregory sure looks like Hulk Hogan. And, what is meant by the title of "Surrogate of New York?" Is that a fancy word for "representative?"

As for this mission, our White House press office today would classify it as a "fact-finding mission." In truth, it probably really was a good-ole fishing trip to get out of the humid Washington, D.C.

[STS Lincolnite]

(01-20-2015 06:42 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Someone please tell me who the good-looking Philip H. Sheridan is in the middle of the back row because it is not the Civil War Sheridan who destroyed the Shenandoah Valley. Also, the "real" Sheridan didn't marry until after the war, and his only son and namesake wasn't born until 1880. Is this handsome man a nephew? Is the Michael V. Sheridan beside him his father and uncle of the CW general?

Don't tell Rick Smith and Wild Bill, but I have two, beautiful, wooden shelves in my house that are supported by carvings of Sheridan and Grant done by a Union veteran who served under Sheridan (and hence under Grant).

The gentleman identified as James Gregory sure looks like Hulk Hogan. And, what is meant by the title of "Surrogate of New York?" Is that a fancy word for "representative?"

As for this mission, our White House press office today would classify it as a "fact-finding mission." In truth, it probably really was a good-ole fishing trip to get out of the humid Washington, D.C.

I don't think the numbers differentiate between sitting and standing. They just represent the order in which their faces appear. The one thereby identified as Philip Sheridan (#3) does look similar to what I have seen in photos of him as an older man - see attached from 1876 (he would be about 7 yrs. older in the group photo). The correct number would also then match up with Lincoln (#9).

So the long answer your one of your questions: the "good looking" man middle back row would be W.P. Clark. Also, Michael V. Sheridan was Phil's younger brother. I'm not sure about the term surrogate but I was wondering about that too. Off to look it up...

---

Ok Laurie, I found the answer to your question re: Dan G. Rollins Surrogate of New York

Surrogates are what they call the judges in the Surrogate Courts of the State of New York. These courts handle all the probate and estate proceedings in the New York unified Court System. Dan G. Rollins was the Surrogate of New York County from 1881-1884.

[RJNorton]

Here is the image from the Lincoln Financial Foundation collection:

[L Verge]

(01-20-2015 07:01 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 06:42 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Someone please tell me who the good-looking Philip H. Sheridan is in the middle of the back row because it is not the Civil War Sheridan who destroyed the Shenandoah Valley. Also, the "real" Sheridan didn't marry until after the war, and his only son and namesake wasn't born until 1880. Is this handsome man a nephew? Is the Michael V. Sheridan beside him his father and uncle of the CW general?

Don't tell Rick Smith and Wild Bill, but I have two, beautiful, wooden shelves in my house that are supported by carvings of Sheridan and Grant done by a Union veteran who served under Sheridan (and hence under Grant).

The gentleman identified as James Gregory sure looks like Hulk Hogan. And, what is meant by the title of "Surrogate of New York?" Is that a fancy word for "representative?"

As for this mission, our White House press office today would classify it as a "fact-finding mission." In truth, it probably really was a good-ole fishing trip to get out of the humid Washington, D.C.

I don't think the numbers differentiate between sitting and standing. They just represent the order in which their faces appear. The one thereby identified as Philip Sheridan (#3) does look similar to what I have seen in photos of him as an older man - see attached from 1876 (he would be about 7 yrs. older in the group photo). The correct number would also then match up with Lincoln (#9).

So the long answer your one of your questions: the "good looking" man middle back row would be W.P. Clark. Also, Michael V. Sheridan was Phil's younger brother. I'm not sure about the term surrogate but I was wondering about that too. Off to look it up...

---

Ok Laurie, I found the answer to your question re: Dan G. Rollins Surrogate of New York

Surrogates are what they call the judges in the Surrogate Courts of the State of New York. These courts handle all the probate and estate proceedings in the New York unified Court System. Dan G. Rollins was the Surrogate of New York County from 1881-1884.

Thanks, Scott. With your posting of the thumbnail, it is easy to see that the second seated gentleman from the left is Gen. Sheridan. As for Capt. Clark, he is the spitting image of Fred Atzerodt, George's great-grand nephew, when I first met him about thirty years ago.

Just a thought: In his later years, Philip Sheridan certainly looked like a commander who could destroy the lovely Shenandoah Valley without a moment's hesitation... Pompous ___ comes to mind. And yes, I know he did it under orders, but I bet he enjoyed every minute of it. Just my Southern commentary.

[STS Lincolnite]

(01-21-2015 07:15 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Just a thought: In his later years, Philip Sheridan certainly looked like a commander who could destroy the lovely Shenandoah Valley without a moment's hesitation... Pompous ___ comes to mind. And yes, I know he did it under orders, but I bet he enjoyed every minute of it. Just my Southern commentary.

I am a Northerner and from what I have read (albeit little) about Sheridan, I think your "commentary", Southren or otherwise, is pretty accurate. I have a biography of Sheridan sitting in my "to read" stack. It might move closer to the top now as my interest has been piqued.

[Wild Bill]

I still think the best bio of Sheridan is Paul Andrew Hutton, Phil Sheridan and his Army. For a [ositive view of Sheridan during Reconstruction, see Joseph Green Dawson III, Army Generals and Reconstruction: Louisiana 1865-1877. For a critical view of Sheridan, see William L Richter The Army in Texas during Reconstruction. Dawson, a classmate of mine, has accused me of writing "Confederate History." Indeed! For an overview of Sheridan, see Richter, "General hip Sheridan, the Historians, and Reconstruction," Civil War History, 33 (No. 2, June 1987), 131-54.

[RJNorton]

On at least one occasion Mary Lincoln did not tell the truth about her age. Below is a portion of a letter she wrote. What was her actual age when she wrote this letter?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Tomorrow is the anniversary of my birthday – I will be 46 – and I feel 86 – My husband always so playfully & tenderly reminded me of the day, if I affected to forget it. He was 14 years & 10 months older than myself, & was from my eighteenth year – Always – lover- husband – father & all all to me – Truly my all."

[Eva Elisabeth]

(Ten years older than I...)

[RJNorton]

Well, if you are 41, you are absolutely correct! Mary wrote this in a letter to Sally Orne on December 12, 1869. She was in Frankfurt at that time. Mary was about to be 51 when she told Sally Orne 46.

When you asked the question about the Chenery House it made me wonder if the Lincolns considered staying a few nights at the Globe Tavern for nostalgia's sake. So your prize will be a free one-week stay in the Globe Tavern in the summer when it's warm in Springfield.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks, Roger. I just wanted to delete my quick unofficial guess - which was actually "designed" to leave others a chance to guess, too (as I simply couldn't resist to guess)...this was such a good question to guess on!

(01-25-2015 03:42 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  When you asked the question about the Chenery House it made me wonder if the Lincolns considered staying a few nights at the Globe Tavern for nostalgia's sake.

Maybe the Globe Tavern didn't exist anymore in 1861? (And probably the future First Lady would have considered it inappropriate.)
BTW, in Mary's terms I'm 31!

[Anita]

    Where is this Lincoln found?

[STS Lincolnite]

I have seen this before. If memory serves, I think it is in Wyoming somewhere.