Did Mary Lincoln need committal?

[Eva Elisabeth]

If the following questions have already been discussed or answered, I apologize. I have checked some, but not all respective threads and posts.

1.) Does a court transcript or something smilar exist, which states in original wording what Mary Lincoln was accused of in the 1875 trial?

2.) On July 3, 1873, Orville Browning wrote in his diary about the following conversation with David Davis:

"At breakfast I took a seat by Judge Davis...I referred to Mrs. Lincoln; spoke of her unhappy and ungovernable temper, but added that great injustice had been done her; that her faults had been exaggerated, and that I believed that all the charges against her of having pilfered from the White House were false. The Judge replied that the proofs were too many and too strong against her to admit of her guilt; that she was a natural born thief; that stealing was a sort of insanity with her, and that she was carried away, from the White House, many things that were of no value to her after she had taken them, and that she had carried them away only in obedience to her irresistible propensity to steal."

Davis' statement, especially for a judge, is a hard judgement; without any proof I would call it a serious case of slander. I suppose he refers to the investigations against Mary by the Commitee on House Approbations in 1866, but I have always thought they came up empty. So, what proofs might Davis have referred to? Did Mary really steal any White House property?

[RJNorton]

Eva, regarding #1, I scanned these two documents from pp. 146-147 of Carl Sandburg's Mary Lincoln: Wife and Widow. The first one is Dr. Ralph Isham's certification that he had examined Mary. The second one is an application to the court to try Mary on the question of sanity. It lists witnesses who should be summoned. Personally I have not seen an actual trial transcript. Does one exist? I do not know. All I have seen is testimony at her trial as reported in newspapers. There is a book titled The Insanity File: The Case of Mary Todd Lincoln. I do not have that particular book and do not know what it contains. Possibly someone else does.

[J. Beckert]

Dr. Ralph Isham examined Mary - and Robert Lincoln's best friend and law partner was Edward Isham. I see a stacked deck here....

[Gene C]

In "Giant In The Shadows" by Jason Emerson (who also wrote The Madness of Mary Lincoln and the Mary Lincoln's Insanity Case, he writes some about this. I have only read Giant in the Shadows, but my general impression is Mary certainly had some problems dealing with reality. Those involved in her committal seem to have taken the action they believed was in her best interest.

I don't know about alleged stealing from the White House, but as First Lady, she had run up considerable debt. She was extemely worried about having enough money, and in later years worried Robert was taking her money away from her.

[L Verge]

Having watched a grandmother live to the age of 91 and a mother to the age of 94, I can say with certainty that having money to support oneself in old age is a major worry for many - especially widows.

I just wish that a historian somewhere would give a clear answer on how much pressure Mary Isham LIncoln, Robert's wife, brought to bear on him to get his mother out of the spotlight.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thank you, Roger. These documents are interesting. It seems one doctor's opinion indeed had been sufficient (since there is obviously no other written medical expert assessment) to determine her fate. And obviously many fates were tried that way, regarding the printed form.

I forgot one question:
3.) Who initiated the investigations? Was it still Thaddeus Stevens (since the Committee on House Appropriations rooted in the Committee on Ways and Means)?

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(08-25-2013 06:11 PM)Gene C Wrote:  I don't know about alleged stealing from the White House, but as First Lady, she had run up considerable debt. She was extemely worried about having enough money, and in later years worried Robert was taking her money away from her.

The following announcement appeared in the "Springfield Journal" in fall 1867:
"Hon. Davis David, administrator of the estate of the late President Lincoln, made a final settlement of the estate...After paying all debts and expenses, there remains the sum of $110;295.90...Since the death of the President, Mrs. Lincoln has received from the estate $4,085.51, Robert Lincoln $7,300.15..."
Thus, until then Robert had taken nearly twice as much.

[RJNorton]

(08-25-2013 05:45 PM)J. Beckert Wrote:  I see a stacked deck here....

I agree with Joe. In fact I believe the majority of doctors who testified at the trial had never even met or examined Mary.

[Eva Elisabeth]

I wonder "whose" witnesses all these people were and how many - if any - gave testimony in favor of Mary.

[RJNorton]

I believe there were about 17 or 18 witnesses all for the prosecution. There really was not a defense presented, and Mary did not testify. 46 years after the trial a juror, Lyman Gage, said, "There seemed no other course than for the jury to find the lady guilty as charged."

[Anita]

Thanks to all who posted here. There are so many issues that touch upon this topic.

In the formal application that Robert filed he stated that his mother, "Mary Lincoln, widow of Abraham Lincoln, deceased, a resident of
Cook county is insane and that it would be for her benefit and for the safety of the community that she should be confined in the Cook County Hospital or the Illinois State Hospital for the Insane."

Did Mary have legal counsel? Was it proved that she was a danger to the community?

Did Robert ask the Edwards if they could care for Mary before he resorted to having her committed?

I don't think there's any doubt Mary needed looking after, but Robert could have handled it better. In the same way Lincoln handled Mary after Willie's death, did he say "mother, if you don't get a grip you'll leave me no choice but to do what I think is best for you which is to confine you for treatment so you can get better."

He could have met her at the hotel and taken her to the courthouse instead of ambushing her there.

But that's what I like to think I would have done. Robert did the best he could given the times, circumstances and who he was.

As for the autopsy, were they routinely done in those days? I don't believe Mary's family would have consented to it, especially Robert.

[RJNorton]

Hi Anita. I would be most curious to know how Donna McCreary feels about your questions, and I will contact her and tell her about your post. Hopefully we'll be able to hear her input.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Is it true that John Todd Stuart urged Robert to try his mother?

[RJNorton]

Hi Eva. Forum member Jason Emerson has written extensively on the topic of Mary's condition. Jason includes Stuart in the small group that was advising Robert prior to the trial. Jason writes, "Stuart not only expressed that he had 'no doubt' that Mary was insane but added that 'Cousin Lizzy Brown' and 'all [Mary's] relatives' in Springfield had the same opinion."

[Eva Elisabeth]

She must have felt having a nightmare or being on a horror trip. Roger, somewhere (can't find it righ now) you have mentioned the book "Mrs Mary Lincoln" by Willhelm Evans. Would you think it's worth spending ~ $30 on that one?

[RJNorton]

Eva, Tom Emery, Eddie Lincoln's biographer (and author of many other writings as well), made a few comments here. I agree with Tom. Although the book was published way back in 1932 I think it's worth buying. As far as I know it's the only biography of Mary written by a medical doctor. The book also includes a timeline of important dates in her life, her travels, etc.