Mary's Reputation

[RJNorton]

Hi Tom. Never to worry. I just changed the word "on" to "toward." The authors of the software I am using included the two words you used (when used together) in the banned list, and the computer software itself automatically posted the *****. This has happened on a few other occasions since the forum started in July where a word or words that are innocently used can also have other meanings. Please do not be concerned with it. If you feel the word "toward" is not what you mean you can change it to something else (except "on").

[Gene C]

(02-10-2013 06:22 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  Tom,

I've noticed that on the site it doesn't differentiate between benign uses of a word and it's more vulgar counterpart, which has on occasion been somewhat humorous.

Best
Rob

does this mean I can't type in "politician"?
(I guess I can)

[Rob Wick]

Gene,

All except for ***** Nixon.

Best
Rob

[RJNorton]

(02-10-2013 06:13 PM)Tom Emery Wrote:  Last fall, the Illinois Supreme Court Historic Preservation Commission and the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum conducted two presentations of a re-trial for Mary's sanity. One was held in Springfield, while the other was in Chicago.

If anyone would like to view a video of the retrial please click here.

[Tom Emery]

Something I realized recently about Mary is that while her husband was the 16th President, she was several short from being the 16th First Lady, or President's wife. Some of her predecessors were also much less visible than other Presidential wives.

Jefferson, Jackson, and Van Buren were all widowers when they assumed the Presidency, while Buchanan was never married (his niece, Harriett Lane, acted as White House hostess).

Tyler's first wife, Letitia, was an invalid who died during his administration and barely came downstairs (he remarried a woman 30 years younger than him later in his term). Pierce's wife, distraught and bitter from the loss of their son, was not particularly active.

Also, Martha Washington never lived in Washington, D.C., because the capital was not located there at the time. William Henry Harrison, he of 31 days service, would not have had a wife who left much impression, if only because she didn't have the time.

Whether or not this has contributed to the negative perceptions of Mary (in that there were fewer Presidential wives to compare her to, or less visible ones) is, obviously, a debate. But it is nonetheless interesting, or at least it is to me.

As an aside, while we have no direct descendants of Lincoln remaining, Tyler apparently has two elderly grandchildren who are still alive. He was still fathering children into his seventies, as, apparently, did one of his sons.

[LincolnMan]

Ok, the Tyler thing is blowing me away-two grandchildren still alive? Wow.

[RJNorton]

Agreed, Bill!

Tom, I wonder if the fact that Mary had close relatives fighting on both sides during the war may have contributed to a negative public perception of her. Could that fact have led to public mistrust?

[HerbS]

Roger and Tom,I think public mistrust at that time was easy to earn!

[Tom Emery]

Roger, I absolutely think her Confederate relative ties had something to do with her negative perception.

Confederate Brig. Gen. Benjamin Hardin Helm, who married Mary's half-sister Emilie, was killed at Chickamauga, and Mary had others in Southern service as well. Emilie, as you all know, spent a great deal of time at the White House afterward, where she remained vocal in her Southern leanings.

I've always said the myth of "Brother Against Brother" in the Civil War was kind of overrated, but it certainly applies to Mary Todd's life.

---

Roger & Herb, I should also mention that I agree with earlier postings about Herndon's role. Rob and Roger are right -- you can't put it all on Herndon. But I certainly think he played a key role in the poor perception of Mary.

Mary, obviously, didn't help herself, with her temper and her emotional imbalances that helped build some enemies. I think there are several factors, and Herndon is among them, as well as her Confederate relatives.

[Deb@Library]

Mary's favorite brother Alecks was killed at the Battle of Baton Rouge. She later told her half-sister Emilie that he and Willie came to visit her "in her dreams." The Northerners believed her a spy because of her Confederate roots and the Southerners believed her a traitor because she was married to Lincoln. Plus, Washington Society (including Miss Harriet Lane, the former White House First Lady) ascribed many of Lincoln's rough qualities to Mary despite her fluent French, aristocratic family, education, and impeccable manners. The girl couldn't win!

[Laurie Verge]

Agreed, Deb. And don't forget the Kim Kardashian of the day - Kate Chase, who used every trick in the book to be in the limelight.

[Gene C]

At least Kate had class! And she didn't use a trowel to put on her makeup.

[L Verge]

I agree. In the big scheme of things, Kate Chase had a lot more attributes than the whole Kardashian family put together - including mom. Sorry - just a personal observation.

[Tom Emery]

Laurie, I agree with your assessments, and I also agree with the earlier post on Mary's good attributes that were ignored by Washington society (and many others, then and since).

I really believe that too much has been made of Mary's faults and failings, and far too little on her good qualities. She was well-read, well-educated, well-spoken, and politically astute, traits which were few and far between in women of the 19th-century, even those of the higher social standing that Mary had.

She was also highly maternal and deeply loved children, particularly her own. To me, those are great qualities to have.

Did she have flaws? Yes, and obvious ones. But, I think too much has been made of those, to her detriment.

Also, I find it interesting that she compares so poorly to other First Ladies, at least in the eyes of some historians. First Ladies, on the whole, are a headstrong, ambitious type. They have often come from the higher echelons of society, and are accustomed to that style of living.

Many have not brought nice attributes to the position. Nellie Taft was highly ambitious and had her eye on the White House since helping out as a teenager to Lucy Hayes in that administration. While her husband was not particularly interested in being President, she wanted it very much, and made that very clear.

Ida McKinley, who suffered from epilepsy and other ailments, was very spoiled; William McKinley would often have to let her win at card games to keep her happy (reflective of his great devotion to her). These are just a couple of examples.

I've wondered if some of Mary's lower moments, such as City Point, would have been handled differently by other First Ladies. I'm not so sure they would have.

In recent years, First Ladies of both parties have given critics reason to chirp, often with justification. I'm not telling anyone how to vote, and I'm not trying to overlook the positives that many Presidential wives have brought to their positions. I'm only saying to look at it from all sides.

I believe that, to compare Mary poorly with other First Ladies is giving the other Presidential wives more credit than may be deserved, and Mary too much blame (again) for her weaknesses.

[HerbS]

A few years ago I put together a rally for Hilary Clinton at a mall with students in Rochester,NY.I commented to her that she was as strong as Mary Lincoln! She said,"Thanks for the compliment"!