+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Powell's revolver (/thread-991.html)
Powell's revolver - Rhatkinson - 06-15-2013 02:32 PM
In the interview of Capt. Rath reprinted in the August, 1988 Surratt Courier, he mentions that Powell's gun would not fire due to the pin being bent. This would imply that Powell did not attempt to fire until after striking Frederick Seward in the head. Also, Rath mentions that he himself tried to fire it, which must mean that it was recovered. Does anyone know where that revolver is presently?
Also, I wonder Betty's thoughts on whether this story, if true, implies that Powell did not want to shoot (and thus kill) anyone except for Sec. Seward. Perhaps he didn't attempt to shoot Frederick first and then pistol whip him only after the gun misfired. This would of course be contrary to Seward's statement, but either Rath or Seward was correct. Both could not be.
RE: Powell's revolver - BettyO - 06-15-2013 03:09 PM
Heath - Powell's gun is currently at Ford's Theatre on display there.
Supposedly Powell aimed the gun at Seward and the gun did NOT fire and Powell attempted to pistol whip young Seward - apparently thinking that a pistol whip about the head would incapacitate him rather than kill him. Powell had been present when Captain Richard Blazer was captured by Mosby's men in November of 1864 and was one of the three pursuing cavalrymen who captured him. Syd Ferguson, one of Powell's cronies, had leaned from his horse and pistol whipped Blazer to the ground. Powell may therefore have thought that by whipping Seward, he would simply knock the man unconscious and then have access to his main target, Seward, not realizing how seriously he did injure Fred Seward.
We don't know how many times Powell struck young Fred Seward. Hollywood likes to "play it up" and make it seem like Powell belabored his gun on Seward repeatedly.
Rath's recollections get a bit sticky. He also seemed to remember that Powell was a blond headed man! Rath's recollections unfortunately were a bit tainted by memory loss as he got older. He suffered from Alzheimer's.
RE: Powell's revolver - Rhatkinson - 06-15-2013 03:29 PM
Well I feel dumb, as I don't recall seeing Powell's revolver at Ford's. Is it in the same case as the axe?
RE: Powell's revolver - BettyO - 06-15-2013 03:58 PM
There is just SO MUCH to see, Heath! Don't feel bad --
Here's Powell's pistol at Ford's.....
![[Image: 6vtu.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/6vtu.jpg/)
RE: Powell's revolver - MaddieM - 06-16-2013 05:54 AM
(06-15-2013 03:09 PM)BettyO Wrote: Heath - Powell's gun is currently at Ford's Theatre on display there.
Supposedly Powell aimed the gun at Seward and the gun did NOT fire and Powell attempted to pistol whip young Seward - apparently thinking that a pistol whip about the head would incapacitate him rather than kill him. Powell had been present when Captain Richard Blazer was captured by Mosby's men in November of 1864 and was one of the three pursuing cavalrymen who captured him. Syd Ferguson, one of Powell's cronies, had leaned from his horse and pistol whipped Blazer to the ground. Powell may therefore have thought that by whipping Seward, he would simply knock the man unconscious and then have access to his main target, Seward, not realizing how seriously he did injure Fred Seward.
We don't know how many times Powell struck young Fred Seward. Hollywood likes to "play it up" and make it seem like Powell belabored his gun on Seward repeatedly.
Rath's recollections get a bit sticky. He also seemed to remember that Powell was a blond headed man! Rath's recollections unfortunately were a bit tainted by memory loss as he got older. He suffered from Alzheimer's.
that's a point I've always wondered at... .Hollywood's theatrical way of showing violence. The reality is probably one punch on the jaw would break it and knock you out, not half a dozen. I should imagine one mighty whack with the butt of a gun would be enough to fell you.. not half a dozen.
RE: Powell's revolver - LincolnMan - 06-16-2013 07:28 AM
Has the pistol ever been formally examined to determine the cause of the misfire? Was the firing pin actually bent? I just wonder if the blunt force that was used by Powell actually bent the pin. I'm not an expert on the pin in the model used. It would seem that the pin itself if very securely housed in the weapon in a way that would make it almost impossible to bend it. Am I wrong on this?
RE: Powell's revolver - BettyO - 06-16-2013 07:33 AM
There were reports that the pin was actually bent and that in striking Fred Seward, Powell accidentally struck the staircase bannister and bent the pin. However Dr. Lattimer years ago stated that the gun, had Powell cocked it repeatedly, would have fired. This was before he struck young Seward with it.
We need Wes Harris to chime in here......!
RE: Powell's revolver - Linda Anderson - 06-16-2013 10:23 AM
William H.Bell testified that he saw Powell strike Fred Seward at least twice. This is from Poore's transcription.
"Q. Did you see with what he struck Mr. Frederick Seward?
A. I did not exactly see it; but, whatever it was, it appeared to me to be round, and to be mounted all over with silver. It was that long [about ten or twelve inches]. I had taken it to be a knife afterwards; they all said he struck him with a pistol; but that I cannot tell.
Q. How many times did he strike him?
A. I saw him raise his hand twice. I did not wait to see how
many times after he hit him. He hit him twice before I could turn around, and while I was looking at him; and then I ran down stairs.
Q. Mr. Frederick Seward was on the floor when you left?
A. Yes, sir: he had fallen."
Fred managed to get up again as Fanny describes seeing him dripping with blood when she or Robinson opened the bedroom door.
"I thought Robinson & I reached
the door at the same time. I did not see who opened it— It
was he. I saw that two men came in, side by side. I was
close by the door, & the one nearest me, was Fred. The side
of his face was covered with blood, the rest very pale, his eyes
full of intense expression. I spoke to ask him what was
the matter,—he could not answer me. On his right
hand was the assassin. I do not remember how his face
looked, his arms were both stretched out, he seemed rushing
toward the bed. In his the hand nearest me was a
pistol, in the right hand a knife."
RE: Powell's revolver - LincolnMan - 06-16-2013 10:38 AM
The picture of Powell's weapon looks like a Whitney- am I correct? That particular pistol was very common with Confederate soldiers. I bet Powell owned it from his service. Was the weapon pretty busted up during the attack? I can see that if it struck a wooden damage that it could have sustained considerable damage- even to the firing pin. That Dr. Latticed thinks the weapon may still have fired if Powell had repeatedly tried- makes sense to me however. Obviously in the heat of the moment Powell did what he felt he needed to do.
RE: Powell's revolver - BettyO - 06-16-2013 11:31 AM
Quote:William H.Bell testified that he saw Powell strike Fred Seward at least twice. This is from Poore's transcription.
Quote:The picture of Powell's weapon looks like a Whitney- am I correct?
Obviously in the heat of the moment Powell did what he felt he needed to do.
Linda - thanks!
Yes - as far as I know, Powell did not belabor Fred Seward as Hollywood has shown in the past - repeatedly striking him 5-6 times....
Bill - yes, Powell's weapon was a Whitney. I do think (and several others have agreed with me) that Powell panicked at Seward's.... he was a highly excitable young man and felt that by knocking Fred "unconscious" (but not considering the damage that he did) that he had obliterated an obstacle in his course in order to get at his target. Forgive me for referring to other human beings as obstacles or targets.....but that is more or less what he probably considered at the time -
RE: Powell's revolver - NJREB1863 - 06-16-2013 02:02 PM
Not being an expert on percussion revolver by any stretch, what I do know makes me think that the reason Powell's Whitney did not fire was caused by either a faulty percussion cap OR a clogged nipple under which the cap would have been placed. It was common for percussion weapons to misfire for either one of these reasons. The revolver has no firing pin as with modern revolvers/pistols. The force of the hammer striking the percussion cap filled with fulminate of mercury, sent a spark through the hollow nipple igniting the black powder which fired the round. If this was the cause of the misfire, Powell could have tried cocking and firing his gun again but in the panic at the time, maybe he just struck out and pistol-whipped Seward instead.
RE: Powell's revolver - Linda Anderson - 06-16-2013 02:11 PM
On rereading Bell's testimony, it seems like he is saying that he heard and saw Powell hit Fred Seward at least four times, twice before he turned around and twice while he was looking at him.
"Q. How many times did he strike him?
A. I saw him raise his hand twice. I did not wait to see how
many times after he hit him. He hit him twice before I could turn around, and while I was looking at him; and then I ran down stairs."
Also, Fanny heard a series of blows.
"Very soon I heard the sound
of blows —it seemed to me as many as half a dozen—sharp
and heavy, with lighter one’s between. There had been an
interval of quiet. I did not fully connect this with the person
I had seen. I thought they were chasing a rat in the hall,
remembering such a chase once. But when the blows
continued, I could not tell what it meant, & said to Robinson,
who was sitting at the head of the bed, on the side nearest
the door, 'What can be the matter? Do go and see.'"
RE: Powell's revolver - LincolnMan - 06-16-2013 02:45 PM
(06-16-2013 02:02 PM)NJREB1863 Wrote: Not being an expert on percussion revolver by any stretch, what I do know makes me think that the reason Powell's Whitney did not fire was caused by either a faulty percussion cap OR a clogged nipple under which the cap would have been placed. It was common for percussion weapons to misfire for either one of these reasons. The revolver has no firing pin as with modern revolvers/pistols. The force of the hammer striking the percussion cap filled with fulminate of mercury, sent a spark through the hollow nipple igniting the black powder which fired the round. If this was the cause of the misfire, Powell could have tried cocking and firing his gun again but in the panic at the time, maybe he just struck out and pistol-whipped Seward instead.
No firing pin! Of course! Something about the report of the bent firing pin bothered me but I couldn't figure it out. There was no firing pin.
RE: Powell's revolver - Wesley Harris - 06-16-2013 03:38 PM
Sorry for my late arrival to the discussion. I've been swamped at work this summer and have to rely on Roger to alert me to a thread I might want to join.
I wrote a lengthy article on this revolver for the Surratt Courier last year so I won't repeat most of my conclusions here. But the statement that the pistol has no firing pin is correct. Pistols that use a "centerfire" cartridge have a firing pin to strike the primer embedded in the base of the cartridge. Percussion pistols like Powell's Whitney simply had a hammer that fell on the percussion cap to explode it.
I don't know if Powell attempted to shoot Frederick Seward or not. The record is rather vague. Frederick's statement that the gun must have misfired came many years after the attack and seems to be a presumption on his part. So I don't know if Powell used the pistol as a club simply because they were in close quarters or because he had attempted to fire it and it didn't work. A misfire can be due to wet powder, a defective percussion cap, and other problems.
Powell's gun did break but it was at the loading ram underneath the barrel. This occurred when he hit Seward over the head. I don't know how many times he hit Frederick Seward but enough to break his skull into several pieces. It was a nearly fatal attack. When the loading ram broke, the whole loading assembly fell off. That's what holds the cylinder in place. The gun literally fell to pieces on the floor.
RE: Powell's revolver - BettyO - 06-16-2013 06:17 PM
Thanks, Wes! I knew that if anyone knew about the weapons, it'd be you!!
