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+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Countdown to July 7 (/thread-6.html)
RE: Countdown to July 7 - Dave Taylor - 07-12-2012 03:27 PM
In Alexander Gardner's image of the moment of the execution (named The Drop) you can see a man, assumed to be Rev. Olds, facing away:
![[Image: Looking%2520away.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t8njVrFx4ps/T_8kTbyChfI/AAAAAAAAAs4/VEZQUhv6WJs/s800/Looking%2520away.jpg)
RE: Countdown to July 7 - Gene C - 07-12-2012 03:33 PM
The force of the bodies dropping and feeling the shaking of the scaffold and hearing the drop would be enough to give some one nightmares.
Intersesting detail on photo, Dave
RE: Countdown to July 7 - L Verge - 07-12-2012 06:53 PM
I have a friend who is a current communicant at Christ Church on Capitol Hill, the Herolds' home church. Several years ago, I asked him to see if there were any church records pertaining to Rev. Olds. Neither he nor the "unofficial" church historian could find anything. However, they admitted that their records were in disarray. I was so in hopes of them finding some comment that the reverend might have made about his experience with the execution. I'm sure that it was an incident in his life that he never forgot.
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-12-2012 08:15 PM
(07-12-2012 03:27 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: In Alexander Gardner's image of the moment of the execution (named The Drop) you can see a man, assumed to be Rev. Olds, facing away:
Thanks, Dave. I'm sure that it was ghastly to feel the drop. One report I have stated that you could hear the gasps or rather choking sounds - apparently from Powell as he strangled. I'm sure the gyrations of both Herold and Powell (both of whom lived longest) made the scaffold shake as well....
Horrid indeed....
RE: Countdown to July 7 - J. Beckert - 07-12-2012 08:30 PM
I remember reading Powell pulled his legs up into almost a sitting position after the drop. Is that right, Betty?
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-12-2012 08:43 PM
(07-12-2012 08:30 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: I remember reading Powell pulled his legs up into almost a sitting position after the drop. Is that right, Betty?
Yes - probably to relieve the pressure on his neck. This is something that I'd like to question Blaine Houmes on. I've also heard/read that the body goes through contractions and at this stage, with the contortions, that the person is actually unconscious; that it's more or less muscle contractions....
RE: Countdown to July 7 - Lindsey - 07-13-2012 12:33 AM
I've read that too, and their hands turned purple. I told Betty we should see who can find more accounts of who took longer to die--Davey or Lewis because there are a shocking amount of reports on either side. It's amazing how so many people can witness the same thing and see something different.
RE: Countdown to July 7 - RJNorton - 07-13-2012 05:26 AM
Earlier in this thread Linda mentioned Dr. Lattimer's book. I would like to second her on that. It's really a fascinating book with lots of photos and diagrams. For example, Dr. Lattimer discusses how in subsequent statements and writings the doctors didn't seem to agree on the path of Booth's bullet. And he includes this graphic:
![[Image: pathofbullett.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/pathofbullett.jpg)
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-13-2012 06:17 AM
(07-13-2012 05:26 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Earlier in this thread Linda mentioned Dr. Lattimer's book. I would like to second her on that. It's really a fascinating book with lots of photos and diagrams. For example, Dr. Lattimer discusses how in subsequent statements and writings the doctors didn't seem to agree on the path of Booth's bullet. And he includes this graphic:
Thanks, Roger!
I had always heard that the path of the bullet lodged behind Lincoln's left eye - yes, Lattimer's book is a good one!
RE: Countdown to July 7 - J. Beckert - 07-13-2012 08:14 AM
Wait a minute. I've always heard the ball came to rest behind his right eye! The Kundhardts stated in 20 Days that Lincoln may have caught a glimpse of someone behind him and began to turn his head to the left. Another version has him pushing a flag back and looking at someone in the audience.
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-13-2012 08:38 AM
(07-13-2012 08:14 AM)J. Beckert Wrote: Wait a minute. I've always heard the ball came to rest behind his right eye! The Kundhardts stated in 20 Days that Lincoln may have caught a glimpse of someone behind him and began to turn his head to the left. Another version has him pushing a flag back and looking at someone in the audience.
I had always thought it went through to the LEFT eye....I could be wrong - you're probably right, Joe - I think there are different theories - of which Lattimer's is one....
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-13-2012 11:14 AM
Yesterday - we got into a discussion (albeit rather grisly) about death by hanging --
I looked it up and found this medical "report" -
With its relatively small diameter, lack of bony shielding, and close association of the airway, spinal cord, and major vessels, the human neck is uniquely vulnerable to life-threatening injuries. Throughout recorded history, various methods of strangulation (ie, disruption of normal blood and air passage in the neck) have been used by both assailants and penal systems to produce injury and death.
Hanging is a form of strangulation that involves suspension by the neck. Hangings can be classified as either complete or incomplete. When the whole body hangs off the ground and the entire weight of the victim is suspended at the neck, the hanging is said to be complete. Incomplete hangings imply that some part of the body is touching the ground and that ]the weight of the victim is not fully supported by the neck. Hangings may also be classified by intent (eg, homicidal, suicidal, autoerotic, accidental).
Significant cervical spinal cord and bony injuries are most common in hangings that involve a fall from a distance greater than the height of the victim. The prognosis in such injuries is dismal.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/826704-overview
It did not say anything about consciousness/loss of consciousness, etc.
The site listed below is more complete and thorough however a word of WARNING: it contains some rather graphically worded medical material:
http://forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=104&Itemid=121
Pretty horrendous and gruesome -- a ghastly and cruel way to die....
RE: Countdown to July 7 - Laurie Verge - 07-13-2012 02:10 PM
Blaine Houmes is going to be speaking at the March conference at Surratt House on Medical Mysteries of the Lincoln Conspirators. This should be right down his alley.
RE: Countdown to July 7 - BettyO - 07-13-2012 02:27 PM
(07-13-2012 02:10 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: Blaine Houmes is going to be speaking at the March conference at Surratt House on Medical Mysteries of the Lincoln Conspirators. This should be right down his alley.
Fantastic! I can't wait to hear him!!
RE: Countdown to July 7 - Rick Smith - 07-16-2012 06:20 PM
(07-13-2012 12:33 AM)Lindsey Wrote: I've read that too, and their hands turned purple. I told Betty we should see who can find more accounts of who took longer to die--Davey or Lewis because there are a shocking amount of reports on either side. It's amazing how so many people can witness the same thing and see something different.
Mike Kauffman says that Powell twisted and writhed for five minutes and that Herold twitched and then wet himself {then died, I would suppose}.