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Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Gene C - 09-20-2021 03:02 PM
This article from Newsmax for 09/20/2021
https://www.newsmax.com/michaeldorstewitz/ford-national-park-service-wilkes-booth/2021/09/20/id/1037145/
(That's what I thought too after reading it)
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - LincolnMan - 09-21-2021 06:24 AM
Sad to read but not a surprise. Good article. God help us.
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - David Lockmiller - 09-21-2021 07:58 AM
(09-21-2021 06:24 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Sad to read but not a surprise. Good article. God help us.
The old saying is that "truth is stranger than fiction." The following is the first post listed in response to the original tweet (which I thought was already at the outer limits of absurdity):
"Yes and its very conflicting. I'm pretty angry at ol Abe. I feel as though he tried to stitch the nation back together, but instead he should have decimated the South. The fact that it is not even well known that he ended the war as a kindness to the South, is also infuriating."
I must admit that I was one of those who did not know that "ol Abe" had "ended the war as a kindness to the South."
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Veronica - 09-21-2021 05:51 PM
(09-21-2021 07:58 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:(09-21-2021 06:24 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Sad to read but not a surprise. Good article. God help us.
The old saying is that "truth is stranger than fiction." The following is the first post listed in response to the original tweet (which I thought was already at the outer limits of absurdity):
"Yes and its very conflicting. I'm pretty angry at ol Abe. I feel as though he tried to stitch the nation back together, but instead he should have decimated the South. The fact that it is not even well known that he ended the war as a kindness to the South, is also infuriating."
I must admit that I was one of those who did not know that "ol Abe" had "ended the war as a kindness to the South."
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Hello David,
I also am one of those that did not know that Abraham Lincoln had acted out of kindness towards the South by ending the civil War. His last photographs pictured an extremely tired man. Having visited the battlefields, being confronted with the deaths of so many, whatever the cause... In any event, he must have had embraced the peace.
I think no pedestal is high enough to honour President Lincoln, from which death was kind to him, been spared from more hardship with the loss of another child.
I am not an American, I am Dutch (Amsterdam); President Lincoln, in my eyes is equal to our Admiral Michael de Ruyter.
"truth is stranger than fiction," certainly when it comes to the background of John Wilkes Booth's family, especially that of his father's first marriage and aftermath of his divorce in connection with the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln.
I have put my findings forward, open for discussion about some strange events which entails an Old Dutch Tradition; the so called 'Abraham & Sarah 50th anniversary'.
Here is what I have found;
Richard Junius Booth (half brother of John Wilkes) married Sarah P. Ware on the last day of December 1849.
Mary Ann Holmes' mother was Sarah Holmes and when Mary Ann became a widow in 1852 she was 50 years old, according to the Old Dutch Tradition she was a 'Sarah'.
JWB had also a late half sister named Amelia, born in UK London on the fifth of October 1815, sadly she died (infancy).
Amelia's father Junius Brutus Booth, married in the same year of his divorce (Good Friday)from Amelia and Richard's mother (she was from Brussels - once one of the provinces of the Netherlands). The marriage took place on the 13th birthday of JWB; May 10, 1851 or 05-10-1851 which I, as an European reads this as; fifth of October 1851.
Can you see the painful coincident?
John Wilkes Booth's parents had married on his 13th birthday and 13 years later, on a 'Good Friday' an 'Abraham' became the means of Mary Ann's son's death and on the date of 05-10-1865 like Amelia's 50th birthday (she was according the Old Dutch Tradition a 'Sarah), John Wilkes Booth's birthday was from that year on also a memorial one.
Sarah P. Ware, Richard Junius Booth's bride, how easily can this be pronounced as 'Sarah B. (be) Ware.
Like I wrote earlier I have written this down in this 'Lincoln Discussion Symposium' and be surprised about the little response on this topic.
I have asked if someone can pass on to me the date that JWB and his brothers had scheduled in 1865 their second beneficial play of 'Julius Caesar'. So far no reaction.
In 1888 ( 10th of May) JWB would have been 50 years old Abraham), his sister Asia had emigrated to England and died there in 1888.
In UK London, on the 10th of May 1888 one Martha Tabram (39) had her last birthday and died on the 7th of August. She was stabbed 39 times, like one stab wound for every year she had lived.
Here follows a rebus 'Tabram'- T from Torah - Abram= Abraham.
Another victim:
Mary Ann Nichols 'Polly' murdered a couple of days after her birthday. Polly was the nickname of the Lord Mayor of London's daughter in 1774-5 (John Wilkes)
Again another victim:
Annie Chapman, found in Hanbury Street in the area of John Street annex to Wilkes Street near Booth Street; John-Wilkes-Booth. One of the shelters of General Booth's Salvation Army was located in Hanbury Street
Double murders:
Elizabeth (Eliza) Stride and Catherine (Kate) Eddowes; the latter's last birthday was on the 14th of April 1888.
In UK London; the late Sarah and Richard Junius Booth their son John Baptist Booth had married in 1875 in London with the 19 year old Eliza Kate Montandon.
Mary Jeannette Kelly in 1888, mutilated and found during Lord Mayors Day (John Wilkes Lord Mayor of London).
Clearly someone went into much pain to put John Wilkes Booth back in the picture again in 1888. So, what about the possibility that JWB was not the assassin on the 14th of April 1865 and was in 1888 not 'Jack the Ripper'. Why not Rathbone as the assassin and John Wilkes Booth was in the Presidential Box to promote the next coming play of Julius Caesar, which explains his dagger and the words of six Semper Tyrannus.
Rewriting history?
Do not think so, it is more that so much has been written; especially by Professor Stephen M. Archer's in his 'Junius Brutus Booth Theatrical Prometheus' which brings about the saying, "time reveals everything".
Curious, what you think about this.
Take also on board that in 1890 Abraham's only grandson died in London and that Bramwell Booth, the son of General William Booth and the editor of the Review of Reviews Mr. W.T. Stead had some strange correspondences with people like; Mark Twain, Tolstoy, Queen Victoria, the Prince of Wales, The King of Belgium and many others in order to stop the mass murderer.
In 1912 the Titanic hit an iceberg on the 14th of April, on board was Mr. W.T. Stead; died like Abraham Lincoln in 1865 on the 15th of April.
Amon others I have here The English Catalogue of Books by Sampson Low & Marson (1890) from the King's College of London which had been tempered with and places Mr. W.T. Stead's 'Story that Transformed the World' on the back page of the Memoirs of Mr. E. Sothern better known as Lord Dundreary in my American Cousin. Mr. W.T Stead's 'Story That Transformed the World' was based on the Passion Play at Oberammergau last article of the Review of Reviews 1890 with its pictures from 1880.
I have here also 'Edwin Booth' recollections by his daughter Edwina Booth Grossmann in which is to find her story of her journey with her father in Oberammergau where in 1880 she and her father had watched 'Passion Play'.
Found so much more, including 'Punch', or the London Sharivari of 1878, editor Tom Taylor;playwright of 'My American Cousin'; this goes to September 3rd, John Sleeper Clarke's birthday, he was the husband of Asia Booth. On that day in 1878 the Thames Disaster took place whereby more than 650 people had died, among them where the 50 year old mother with her seven year old daughter who never returned home in Rathbone Street, Westminster. In this area is also Booth Place and the particular street names surrounding Berners Street, Westminster; (Elizabeth Stride corpse was found in Berner Street Spitalfields and from her has been said she was on board of the 'Princess Alice' Paddle Steamer on the 3rd of September 1878) but Margaret Street as Margaret's Ness or Tripcock point, Princes Street and Castle Great Castle Street together they forms the bleu print of the Thames Disaster.
Getting late, but as you see I have a lot of material which indeed is stranger than fiction and in a way, I wish it was the latter.
All the best David hope you are a steady reader....
Veronica (The Pike).
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Gene C - 09-22-2021 07:11 AM
Dave Taylor may be able to assist you with some of your questions. He is very knowledgeable regarding John Wiles Booth.
He has a very nice web site - https://lincolnconspirators.com/2012/03/04/hello-world/
For those unfamiliar with the Thames River Disaster (like me). here is some information you may find interesting
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-44800309
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - David Lockmiller - 09-22-2021 10:33 AM
(09-21-2021 05:51 PM)Veronica Wrote: Hello David,
I also am one of those that did not know that Abraham Lincoln had acted out of kindness towards the South by ending the civil War. His last photographs pictured an extremely tired man. Having visited the battlefields, being confronted with the deaths of so many, whatever the cause... In any event, he must have had embraced the peace.
All the best David hope you are a steady reader....
Veronica (The Pike).
I stay out of the subject matter of President Lincoln's assassination. It was Lincoln's life that mattered to me.
However, there is "an extremely-tired man" photograph of President Lincoln, of which you speak, in the book by Professor Stephen Oates titled, With Malice Toward None - the Life of Abraham Lincoln, (page 333). It is the famous cracked-plate photograph of President Abraham Lincoln made near the end of the Civil War (from which only one print was made). The caption reads: "The strain of war -- April, 1865."
This caption was also accompanied by a quotation from President Lincoln speaking at the approximate time to his wife:
"We must both be more cheerful in the future," Lincoln said to Mary; "between the war and the loss of our darling Willie, we have both been very miserable."
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Gene C - 09-22-2021 10:41 AM
(09-21-2021 05:51 PM)Veronica Wrote: Clearly someone went into much pain to put John Wilkes Booth back in the picture again in 1888. So, what about the possibility that JWB was not the assassin on the 14th of April 1865 and was in 1888 not 'Jack the Ripper'. Why not Rathbone as the assassin and John Wilkes Booth was in the Presidential Box to promote the next coming play of Julius Caesar, which explains his dagger and the words of six Semper Tyrannus.
Rewriting history?
Do not think so, it is more that so much has been written; especially by Professor Stephen M. Archer's in his 'Junius Brutus Booth Theatrical Prometheus' which brings about the saying, "time reveals everything".
Unlikely in my opinion that Rathbone was the assassin since no one else in the Presidential Box said he was. Also since Rathbone was stabbed, Booth would have had no reason to to jump over the box railing to escape the scene. He could have opened the box door and been a hero because he subdued Rathbone.
Not being as familiar with British history as you, I can't see a connection to Booth and Jack the Ripper, or Booth and W T Stead, or to the Thames River Disaster of 1888.
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Joe Di Cola - 09-22-2021 12:25 PM
The "cracked plate" image mentioned in a recent post was taken at the Alexander Gardner Gallery on February 5, 1865 and not April 10 and, in the past, was often mistakenly identified as the last photo of Lincoln. A photo taken of Lincoln, by Henry F. Warren on March 6, on the White House balcony is now thought to be the last photo taken of Lincoln alive.
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Veronica - 09-22-2021 03:46 PM
So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
In the Netherlands, we would say; "when you have reached your 50th birthday" A man becomes an Abraham and a woman 'Sarah'.
Also, one is never to old to learn, thus why not Rathbone, who can tell if Rathbone was not prevented JWB of leaving the Presidential Box that the latter was fighting for his life? Not all is like it seems you know. Here follows another link to Rathbone and appears on the last page of Harper's Weekly April 15, 1865.
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https://archive.org/details/harpersweeklyv9bonn/page/240/mode/2up
Internet Archive 'Harper's weekly' April 15, 1865 the last page.
In the same column was printed the advert of 'Gun & Co.' 17 Charlotte Street, London (W.C.), England. This address was incomplete, as this is apparent in an article from the Derby Mercury 4 January 1865 on the topic of a curious advertisement, which was first kindly brought to my attention in an email by Mr. James Exelby.
The article goes as follow; ‘A curious advertisement appeared in the Times on the 24th inst. It ran: thus :—" Missing Friends.—Messrs. Gun and Co. have just received from America the names of 3,000 Federal prisoners of war who died in prison at Andersonville, State of Georgia, during the months of June and July of this year. Those who have had friends serving in the Northern army from whom they have not heard for some time will do well to apply to Gun and Co., American, Colonial, and Foreign Agents, 17 Charlotte Street, Bedford Square, W.C. England.
Why curious?
Through the British Newspaper Archive I found out that Gun & Co., was not at all located at 17 Charlotte Street in Westminster in 1865
The Sheffield Daily Telegraph, January 3, 1865 had the similar ‘curious advertisement’ in its column, which was, May 13, 1865, address of Gun & Co. 19 Craven Street, Strand London Westminster and so was it noted down in various newspapers from that year.
Let it have been the case that in London Westminster, Charlotte Street extended into Rathbone Street, near Rathbone Place with the nearby St Andrews Church parallel to Booth Place; St’ Andrew’s Day, November 30, in 1852 Junius Brutus Booth died on a Mississippi river boat, been ‘nursed’ by a man a complete stranger.
I have here ‘The Tragedian’ An essay on the histrionic genius of Junius Brutus Booth by Thomas R. Gould. The first page ‘December 1852’; ‘Ten days ago a private letter from New Orleans assured us, that the great actor of the age had arrived from the golden land, was then playing an engagement in that city, and appeared in remarkable good health’.
Richard Junius Booth married with one Sarah P. Ware and going out from the presumption that he knew Mary Ann Holmes' age, becoming 50 in 1852 and the worse had happened to her, losing her husband as his mother had lost his father.
Can you not see the red line of a premediated revenge; JWB trapped 13 years later, disaster had struck Mary Ann again?
Rathbone Street was near Berners Street; Elizabeth Stride's body was found in Berner Street Spitalfields.
In 1875 there was another Whitechapel murder from which one witness, his address was mistakenly printed in the newspaper as Berners Street Whitechapel. The Wainwrights trial in London, of which one Mr. Wainwright had met Harriet Lane at the River Lea and became her murderer. These names Wainwright, Lea and Harriet Lane goes to the second sea battle in Galveston where Captain Wainwright and Lieutenant Lea where killed by the Confederates on deck of the 'Harriet Lane'.
Captain Jonathan Thomas Scharf in 'The History of the Confederate States Navy' wrote about this battle in Galveston and his version (1887) has some strange linkages with the overkill of Harriet Lane in 1875. Had his book been edited in before December 1875, perhaps Mr. Henry Wainwright had never met his hangman.
It is very complex and I am looking for a person that has the patient to read it all and not as one in Maryland had duped me as ' crazy'. I spent years of study this 'cryptic labyrinth' and still I do not know the date of the three Booth brothers scheduled program of Julius Caesar' in 1865.
But thanks in any way by reading this.
Veronica
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - AussieMick - 09-22-2021 05:44 PM
Veronica,
( interesting to read of Michael De Ruyter ... being British born I was only taught about Brit heroes ... fascinating life)
The date of the Julius Caesar performance was Nov 25 1864
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Garden_Theatre_(1850)#Julius_Caesar_and_the_burning_of_New_York_City
(note that the initial reference to the performance has Nov 26 but that must be wrong)
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/nyregion/as-booth-brothers-held-forth-1864-confederate-plot-against-new-york-fizzled.html
https://www.abouttheartists.com/productions/102288-julius-caesar-at-winter-garden-theatre-1850-1867-1864
I have been thinking recently about the assassination and the course of events in the box. In particular, how much room was there behind Mary Lincoln and Clara Harris ... how did Rathbone manage to spring up and move around the 2 ladies so that he could lunge at Booth forcing Booth to draw the dagger and slash at Rathbone. It would all have required Booth to fire the shot, perhaps put one foot up on the railing (or whatever), Rathbone to move around behind the ladies and grab at Booth, Booth to withdraw the dagger (unless he had it ready in his other hand ... which would seems implausible unless he was ambidextrous) and turn to strike Rathbone and then turn again and leap onto the stage.
I can only imagine that Booth paused for a second or two in his "performance" and gloried in the moment as he stared at his audience.
Adding to this, that dagger must have been extremely sharp to have sliced through Rathbone's winter-Spring clothing and cause considerable bleeding.
the dagger ...
update ... Dave Taylor has a great comment here
https://lincolnconspirators.com/2019/06/27/an-update-regarding-john-wilkes-booths-knife/
https://www.fords.org/blog/post/which-knife-did-john-wilkes-booth-use-disentangling-the-lincoln-assassination-knives/
This has a 1940 press release by NPS describing the knife as a stiletto-type. This to my mind is nothing like the photographs of the knife on display at Fords Theatre. The knife apparently located in the barn when Booth was shot is described as a Bowie which has a distinct curve.
Ive tried searching but cannot find out what happened to the dagger/knife after Rathbone was stabbed/slashed .
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - Veronica - 09-23-2021 01:28 AM
Hello Aussie Mick,
Thanks for the link of the 'liberty knife' and the date of the first Julius Caesar Shakespeare Play, performed by the Booth brothers.
But I have asked; ' if someone can pass on to me the date that JWB and his brothers had scheduled in 1865 their second beneficial play of 'Julius Caesar'. I emigrated from Amsterdam too England and lost a lot of my files on the American Civil War in general; hence the disappearance of this information, cannot even recall where I got it from, but there was a second performance.
I have to go to my work soon so try to keep this short.
The way you approached the question of how Rathbone could have moved from his seat towards the chair of the president without been spotted by the two women at his site, is very logically. If it comes to Mrs. Abraham Lincoln, she was soon moved out of the way, hysterical and such.
If it comes to the fiancee of Rathbone, Clara Harris who, as you probably know, was murdered in December, 23 1883 in Hanover, Germany by her husband; I have here several copied documents from the USA National Archive Trust sent to me in 2006 in which many Civil War 'celebrities', had petitioned in 1877 for Colonel Henry R. Rathbone as a charge d' affaires at Denmark or any foreign affairs; among those was also U.S. General William T. Sherman and Rathbone's stepfather Ira Harris.
During the Government of President Rutherford B. Hayes this petition was ignored but during the Presidency of Chester A. Arthur Colonel Rathbone and his family went on their way to Hanover. The archivist had notified me that the documents of the second petition has disappeared.
You know, one's mind is a curious thing especially if it comes to the subconsciousness a protection shield from shocking affairs like a murder that had happened right besides you as it did with the two women next to the president. Let me tell you that, when I was ten years old, my father had died in that year, for some odd reason I locked myself in the kitchen to surprise my family with a cup of tea. This was early in the morning and one particular event had made me curious, which was the 'smoke' as I took it was then, coming from the kettle and wondered what was going on inside. Standing tip toes trying to looking in, my nighty caught fire. I panicked and all my recollection of that morning had disappeared. Ten years later, l had a dream and in details I relived that morning. We lived at the third floor and in my dream my younger sister had opened the door, I was standing on the big iron dust bin, ready to jump. The kitchen door goes inwards if you wanted to open it and in my panic i was pushing and to get away from the flames I was about to make that escape.
My sister was the one that had reacted on the barks of our dog and had opened the door just in time. My sister never spoke about that morning as it was for her shocking as well, until I asked her about the details which she confirmed.
Having said this, reckon that the same has happened to Clara, that she remembered after ten years that her husband had left the seat or already was standing behind the president when JWB appeared, which could have been timed.
Clara might have mentioned this to her husband, perhaps have seen him shooting.
I know lots of 'if's', but we are indoctrinated by the pictures of the press at that time with Rathbone's position away from the president.
Well, just one avenue to think about, but one thing, even Ira Harris had considered away from Washington DC would have done his son - in-law good which included his daughter who might have past on her dream to him.
I have to to my work, no breakfast for me today....
Veronica
RE: Lincoln's Revelance Questioned by National Park Service - David Lockmiller - 09-23-2021 11:00 AM
(09-22-2021 12:25 PM)Joe Di Cola Wrote: The "cracked plate" image mentioned in a recent post was taken at the Alexander Gardner Gallery on February 5, 1865 and not April 10 and, in the past, was often mistakenly identified as the last photo of Lincoln. A photo taken of Lincoln, by Henry F. Warren on March 6, on the White House balcony is now thought to be the last photo taken of Lincoln alive.
Thank you for that correction. I checked the quotation from the book and it is as I quoted. The book was published in 1977.
I confirmed your correction by going to the set of photographs in Professor Burlingame's scholarly work Abraham Lincoln: A Life (Vol. TWO, page 558 following.) This collection includes two photographs of President Lincoln made by Alexander Gardner on February 5, 1865. The captions of the two photographs read:
Often misidentified as the final picture of Lincoln before his death, this Alexander Gardner portrait dates from February 5, 1865, a month before the last photograph of the president. In the developing process, the negative broke. Gardner simply placed the two pieces together, made one print, and disposed of the negative. (Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, Springfield, Illinois.)
In this photo, taken by Alexander Gardner on February 5, 1865, Lincoln seems to radiate an inner peace, for he knew that the war would soon end. (Library of Congress.)
I would only add that the two photographs were made only a few days after the House of Representatives passed the Thirteenth Amendment legislation on January 31, 1865 and President Lincoln had responded to White House serenaders the next night in which he explained in vivid detail the importance of "this great moral victory."