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+--- Thread: I Mary (/thread-4372.html)
Pages: 1 2
I Mary - Gene C - 08-08-2020 07:17 PM
Written by Ruth Painter Randall, published in 1959, with 230 pages of text.
The dust jacket indicates it is written for young readers (teen age). I think young to adult readers will enjoy and learn from it. Mrs. Randall was the wife of Lincoln historian James Randall and assisted him with his research and writings.
I have read a couple of books about Mary Lincoln and what makes this one stand out is Mrs Randall's approach to her subject. It's not a collection of details about Mary, it is written as though Mrs Randall knew Mary and is telling the story of her life, as her close friend. She mentions Mary's fears, insecurities about money, her dependence on Mr. Lincoln, feelings of loneliness, mental and health issue, as an understanding and caring friend. She shares through Mary's letters, how much Mary loved Mr. Lincoln, and how she was devastated by his death, Willie's and Tad's. She also tells about Mary as a young girl, her romance with Mr. Lincoln, and her deep, never ending love for him. This helps to see Mary as a real person.
Mrs. Randall takes a dim view of Lincoln's law partner, William Herndon. She blames him for a considerable amount of Mary's mental anguish. She attributes much of this to his drinking problems and she gives a few descriptive examples. She writes as someone who knows the pain an alcoholic can cause to others. She has several pages about Herndon, his alcoholism and writes "... he was an ill-ballanced, flighty person, whose statements were often based on his own imagination and could not be trusted." (p 212) That was one of her milder comments
I enjoyed the book, and recommend it to anyone interested in Mary Lincoln. It is not a detailed book, but after reading it you will feel like you have a better understanding and know what Mary Lincoln was like as a real person. Unfortunately, there is no bibliography or footnotes. It is easy and enjoyable to read with good sized print, and I think has stood the test of time.
It is not available on Internet Archives yet.
Available at Amazon and other book dealers, I purchased my copy in good condition (with some underlining) for $15
https://www.amazon.com/Mary-biography-married-Abraham-Lincoln/dp/B0007DN1HO/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=ruth+painter+randall&qid=1596930529&s=books&sr=1-5
RE: I Mary - Rob Wick - 08-08-2020 08:59 PM
Quote:I have read a couple of books about Mary Lincoln and what makes this one stand out is Mrs Randall's approach to her subject. It's not a collection of details about Mary, it is written as though Mrs Randall knew Mary and is telling the story of her life, as her close friend.
Gene,
Carl Sandburg told Ruth Randall that she needed to write the book "like a woman" meaning trying to understand Mary from the woman's perspective. That's one of the few Randall books I haven't read, and I doubt I will anything soon, but I'll have to give it a looksee sometime.
Best
Rob
RE: I Mary - Donna McCreary - 08-19-2020 07:49 PM
I first became aware of this book when I was in junior high school. It is excellent reading material for young readers and is a good introductory book to Mary.
Randall is hard on Herndon. She detests him as much as Mary did.
RE: I Mary - Gene C - 08-22-2020 07:20 PM
Regarding Herndon's drinking, p. 124........
Before daybreak, a messenger from the sheriff came pounding on Lincoln's door and woke him up. Herndon and two other men had been drinking, smashed the entire front of a grocery store and committed other acts of vandalism. Unless Lincoln could raise $100 right away, Herndon would be thrown in jail. (Not a good thing for the law partner of an up and coming politician) Mr Lincoln didn't have the funds and had to go to the home of a well to do business man to borrow the money. The money paid for the damages and Herndon was saved from going to jail.
This was just more evidence for Mary that Herndon was unfit to be her husbands law partner. He could not be trusted.
Unfortunately. there is no footnote for this incident. I looked through Lincoln's Herndon, by David Donald.
While he has several comments about Herndon's drinking problems, this story is not specifically mentioned.
Any one else heard of it?
RE: I Mary - Donna McCreary - 08-22-2020 11:48 PM
(08-22-2020 07:20 PM)Gene C Wrote: Regarding Herndon's drinking, p. 124........
Before daybreak, a messenger from the sheriff came pounding on Lincoln's door and woke him up. Herndon and two other men had been drinking, smashed the entire front of a grocery store and committed other acts of vandalism. Unless Lincoln could raise $100 right away, Herndon would be thrown in jail. (Not a good thing for the law partner of an up and coming politician) Mr Lincoln didn't have the funds and had to go to the home of a well to do business man to borrow the money. The money paid for the damages and Herndon was saved from going to jail.
This was just more evidence for Mary that Herndon was unfit to be her husbands law partner. He could not be trusted.
Unfortunately. there is no footnote for this incident. I looked through Lincoln's Herndon, by David Donald.
While he has several comments about Herndon's drinking problems, this story is not specifically mentioned.
Any one else heard of it?
I have heard this story, but since I have read both I, Mary and The Biography of a Marriage, I am not sure from which source I remember it. Surely, Randall used the story in both books.
RE: I Mary - RJNorton - 08-23-2020 04:21 AM
Good memory, Donna. Yes, the same story is on p. 103 of Mary Lincoln: Biography of a Marriage. I agree with Gene; I am not familiar with this story and do not know Ruth Painter Randall's source.
RE: I Mary - Rob Wick - 08-23-2020 08:08 PM
I think a case can be made that Ruth Randall could be faulted for not providing a source for the story. After all, her husband was the preeminent Lincoln scholar of the mid-20th century and faulted numerous writers for failing to cite their sources (most notably, as one would guess, Carl Sandburg). Even if Ruth had not been Mrs. James G. Randall, her father was Professor F.V.N. Painter, literature scholar at Roanoke College in Virginia, and her brother was Theopholus Painter, president of the University of Texas (and namesake of the landmark civil rights case of Sweatt v. Painter in 1950), so she was well aware of the rules of scholarship. I would question the validity of the story given the Randall's intense dislike of Herndon.
Best
Rob
RE: I Mary - Gene C - 08-24-2020 07:07 AM
Her papers are at the University of Illinois, Urbana, IL.
It's a small collection of papers. I doubt an answer lies here, but you never know.
https://www.library.illinois.edu/ihx/archon/?p=collections/controlcard&id=6047
My guess is that she was writing to a different group of readers and for a different purpose than her husband wrote.
Possibly didn't expect or want her writing to receive the critical detailed examination her husband, James Randall, received.
RE: I Mary - Rob Wick - 08-24-2020 07:58 PM
Gene,
You're likely correct, but given the name recognition that James Randall enjoyed during his lifetime, and the amount of money that Ruth made from her books after James died partly because of that reputation (she endowed the James G. Randall Distinguished Professorship in U.S. History at the U of I with the proceeds) that's not good enough of an excuse (at least in my way of thinking). All added to the poor reputation that Herndon had during James' life time and after, due in large part to both the Randalls (don't forget, it was Ruth who likely wrote the Ann Rutledge chapter in Randall's Lincoln the President series). She has to be held to a higher standard.
Also, even though James noted that Sandburg didn't write for academics but rather popular readers, that didn't stop him from criticizing Sandburg (and other popular writers) for not including citations of sources. If he was being fair, and she wasn't his wife, he would be obligated (again, at least in my mind) to criticize her approach.
Just a note. The bulk of her papers are actually located at the Library of Congress where James' papers are located. There are some letters in the University of Illinois Archives, but they're more of a scattershot nature. Wayne Temple told me that after Randall's death, he was going through Randall's papers with the idea they would be donated to the U of I, but David Donald interceded with Ruth telling her that James wanted his papers to go to the Library of Congress, which she granted. Only a few boxes (seven to be exact) made it to the University of Illinois. It was a decision that befuddled many of Randall's friends. I remember reading a letter from Harry Pratt to Sandburg that questioned why the papers went to the LOC.
You should read James and Ruth's letters that chronicle their love and devotion for each other. They're quite steamy.
https://www.loc.gov/item/mm78037226/
Best
Rob
RE: I Mary - Gene C - 08-25-2020 05:35 AM
(08-24-2020 07:58 PM)Rob Wick Wrote: You should read James and Ruth's letters that chronicle their love and devotion for each other. They're quite steamy.
https://www.loc.gov/item/mm78037226/
Best
Rob
That reminds me of a song by Patti Page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1YHL2E2sR4
RE: I Mary - Susan Higginbotham - 08-25-2020 06:41 PM
(08-22-2020 07:20 PM)Gene C Wrote: Regarding Herndon's drinking, p. 124........
Before daybreak, a messenger from the sheriff came pounding on Lincoln's door and woke him up. Herndon and two other men had been drinking, smashed the entire front of a grocery store and committed other acts of vandalism. Unless Lincoln could raise $100 right away, Herndon would be thrown in jail. (Not a good thing for the law partner of an up and coming politician) Mr Lincoln didn't have the funds and had to go to the home of a well to do business man to borrow the money. The money paid for the damages and Herndon was saved from going to jail.
This was just more evidence for Mary that Herndon was unfit to be her husbands law partner. He could not be trusted.
Unfortunately. there is no footnote for this incident. I looked through Lincoln's Herndon, by David Donald.
While he has several comments about Herndon's drinking problems, this story is not specifically mentioned.
Any one else heard of it?
The story certainly seems fishy to me. I have a hard time believing that Lincoln would tolerate a partner who went around drunkenly destroying his neighbors' property.
RE: I Mary - Gene C - 04-26-2021 10:17 AM
I came across another slightly different version of the story, It's the same story with slightly different details.
It's from "Lincoln Talks", p.57 - Delayed Payment. The book is a collection of stories edited by Emanuel Hertz. (copyright 1939)
"Bunn asked Lincoln what the fee would be. Lincoln answered
that, if some time in the future he felt he had a fee coming, he
would ask Bunn for it. And Bunn had nearly forgotten all about the fee, when one
morning, as he was eating breakfast, Lincoln came in and asked
for a hundred-dollar fee in the case. Bunn said he would be glad
to pay the fee but wished to know why Lincoln had let the matter
go so long, and why the fee should be collected in the middle of
a morning breakfast.
And as Bunn told it later, "Lincoln's answer was that he needed
the money, not for himself, but for another who was in trouble
and needed his help. Three of his friends had spent the night in
a spree, had broken in almost the entire front of a grocery or
saloon; they were in the sheriff's office and would be placed in jail unless someone should settle for the damage done.
In a few moments I secured the money and turned it over to him. He seemed more or less relieved, and hurriedly left to interview the sheriff and release his friends.
I did not press him for names, but learned
that two of his friends were the sons of wealthy parents and the
third was his law partner. Lincoln was poorer than any of them,
and yet he seemed to regard it as his duty to crawl out of his bed
before daybreak to their rescue. I doubt if another man in Springfield would have done it. No wonder Lincoln sometimes thanked
God he was not born a woman!"
—John W. Bunn
I abbreviated the story, the full version is here - https://archive.org/details/lincolntalksbiog00hert/page/56/mode/2up
There are three other stories in this book attributed to John Bunn.
I didn't know who John Bunn was. This link from MR. Lincoln and Friends tells us something about him.
http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/the-boys/john-bunn/
RE: I Mary - RJNorton - 04-26-2021 12:51 PM
I checked the Fehrenbachers' book to see the rating they gave to Bunn's reminiscences. The two compilers included several of Bunn's recollections, and the majority received a "C" --> a quotation recorded non contemporaneously. From what I can tell, Mr. Bunn was a respected and successful gentleman.
RE: I Mary - Steve Whitlock - 04-26-2021 07:44 PM
(04-26-2021 12:51 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I checked the Fehrenbachers' book to see the rating they gave to Bunn's reminiscences. The two compilers included several of Bunn's recollections, and the majority received a "C" --> a quotation recorded non contemporaneously. From what I can tell, Mr. Bunn was a respected and successful gentleman.
Here's a little more about John W. Bunn and his brother, Jacob Bunn:
John W. Bunn [John Whitfield Bunn]
Birth 21 Jun 1831
Hunterdon County, New Jersey, USA
Death 7 Jun 1920 (aged 88)
Springfield, Sangamon County, Illinois, USA
Burial
Oak Ridge Cemetery
Springfield, Sangamon County, Illinois, USA
Plot Block 10, 19
Memorial ID 52258533 · View Source
Aged 88yrs, 11mos, 17dys. Younger brother of Jacob Bunn; John never married.
Pioneer Springfield business man. President of Springifeld Marine bank and an officer and director in many other institutions. Came to Springfield in August 1847 and became a clerk for his brother Jacob in the wholesale grocery business. In 1858 he became a member of the firm, with the name being changed to J. and J. W. Bunn & Company. He later branched out into other enterprises, holding various offices: M. Seiz and Co., a wholesale boot and shoe business; Springfield Marine Bank; Illinois Watch factor; Sangamon Meter Works. Served four terms as city treasurer from 1857-1860. Treasurer of the state board of agriculture from 1859 to 1895. Treasurer of the University of Illinois from 1868 to 1893. Member of the Republican state central committee from 1872 to 1886, returning in 1900 and serving until 1902. Member of the Sangamo and Illini country clubs and of the Chicago club and Union League club of Chicago.
He was one of the only two or three men living who were intimate friends of Abraham Lincoln. Many of the Springfield business were closed the day of his funeral out of respect.
IL State Register, Springfield, IL, 6-7-1920
**********************************
John W Bunn
in the 1850 United States Federal Census
Name: John W Bunn
Gender: Male
Age: 18
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: New Jersey
Home in 1850: Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois, USA
Occupation: Clerk
Industry: Not Specified Retail Trade
Line Number: 22
Dwelling Number: 219
Family Number: 229
Household Members Age
Henry Carrigan 33
Susannah Carrigan 33
Hugh Carrigan 14
Henry Carrigan 2
Ellen Carrigan 14
Joseph Paine 18
Lewis Bullett 50
Phebe Todd 40
Susan Howard 18
Mary Howard 0
******************************
John W. Bunn
in the Illinois, U.S., Deaths and Stillbirths Index, 1916-1947
Name: John W. Bunn
Birth Date: 21 Jun 1831
Birth Place: Hunterdon County, New Jersey
Death Date: 7 Jun 1920
Death Place: Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois
Burial Date: 9 Jun 1920
Death Age: 88
Occupation: Banker
Race: White
Marital status: S
Gender: Male
Father Name: Henry Bunn
Father Birth Place: New Jersey
Mother Name: Mary
Mother Birth Place: New Jersey
FHL Film Number: 1562486
****************************
Papers. [1939]
Abraham Lincoln Association (Springfield, Ill.), Lincoln centennial association.
Page 11
FOREWORD
Mr. John W. Bunn, Vice-President of the Association
since its organization, succeeded Judge Humphrey as President, and presided at the banquet in 1919, at which time the Honorable Clinton L. Conkling of Springfield, gave the address "Lincoln in his Home Town." Mr. Conkling was the son of James C. Conkling, a Springfield lawyer, who practiced at the bar with Lincoln from 1837 and who had also been intimately associated with Lincoln politically and socially. It was to him that Lincoln addressed the well known letter of August 26, 1863 dealing with
the national political issues then under discussion.
Mr. Bunn had come to Springfield in 1847 as a boy of sixteen to clerk for his brother, Jacob Bunn, who in connection with his wholesale and retail grocery business, conducted a banking business. Lincoln was Jacob Bunn's attorney. Lincoln, Jacob Bunn and John W. Bunn from 1847 onward were active members of the same political party. This association between client and attorney brought John W. Bunn into intimate contact with Lincoln, the association being that of a younger man with a man twenty years his senior. This intimacy extended to their association in politics, and John W. Bunn became one of the younger men through whom Lincoln conducted his political operations. In 1857, at Lincoln's suggestion, Bunn became a candidate for city treasurer, and on March 7, 1861, President Lincoln
Page 12
12 ABRAHAM LINCOLN ASSOCIATION PAPERS
appointed Bunn to the office of United States Pension Agent for Illinois. This was one of the first appointments made by Lincoln. It was natural, therefore, that Mr. Bunn should have a lively personal interest in the formation and permanent continuance of an association for the purposes given in the charter of the Lincoln Centennial Association.* The Association, too, had as it were, a living touch with the Lincoln of the fifties because of Mr. Bunn's personal association with him, which touch vitalized the organization. Mr. Bunn continued as President of the Association until his death in 1920. For a period after Mr. Bunn's death, the Association almost ceased to function.
In 1920 Mr. Logan Hay was elected President of the Association. Shortly afterwards Miss Mary
Humphrey, daughter of Judge Humphrey, was elected Vice-President after the death of Philip Barton Warren and Mr. George W. Bunn, Jr., a grand nephew of Mr. John W. Bunn, was elected Secretary.
Upon the death of J. H. Holbrook, Treasurer in 1935, Robert E. Miller was elected his successor. All these persons have continued to serve as such officers since their original election.
* Mr. Bunn's account of his personal relations with Lincoln and his estimate of him is one of the finest and most important in print. It is too little known. It may be found in his letter to Isaac N. Phillips, October 25, 1910, published in Abraham Lincoln By Some Men Who Knew Him, edited by Mr. Phillips.
***************
https://digital.lib.niu.edu/islandora/object/niu-lincoln%3A35608
The link just above goes to a Lincoln day by day chronology. Do a Find for "bunn" and you'll see Mary Lincoln started an account with the Jacob Bunn store. Subsequent charges and payments are listed in the "Bunn Journal". As we go further we come to many court cases for the Bunns, which are litigated by Abraham Lincoln and William Herndon. I didn't see any mention of the $100 fee paid to Abraham; however, this clearly shows it is a possibility with all the legal cases involved.
RE: I Mary - Rob Wick - 04-26-2021 09:14 PM
In Ids Tarbell's papers, there is a memorandum she wrote to herself about Bunn dated 1909. Here is the link.
https://dspace.allegheny.edu/handle/10456/26952
Best
Rob