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+--- Thread: The America I Love Needs to Do Better (/thread-4335.html)
The America I Love Needs to Do Better - David Lockmiller - 06-02-2020 12:06 PM
I read an article in The Atlantic this morning by Arnold Schwarzenegger that I thought was all very good, but a few paragraphs in particular stood out for me. It was an insight that I had not considered heretofore.
The America I Love Needs to Do Better
Patriotism isn’t just the blind love of our flag. It is the work we do to improve our country for every American.
The Atlantic
MAY 31, 2020
Arnold Schwarzenegger
38th governor of California
This isn’t an attack on police officers. It is a criticism of a broken system. My father was a police officer. I have always rooted for police officers. But you can be a fan of something and still see the wrong within it. And it is clear that something is very wrong.
My friend Erroll Southers, who has spent his career in law enforcement and served in my administration’s homeland-security department, wrote today: “I still get nervous when I receive the unexpected phone call at an odd hour, hoping my son, brother or relative has not become the next hashtag.”
Think about that. Erroll Southers is a professor at USC, a former FBI agent, an upstanding man in every sense of the word, and because of the color of his skin, when his phone rings in the middle of the night, his first thought is that his son or brother might be the reason for the next march.
I can’t even fathom that experience. If my kids FaceTime me late at night, it brings me joy, or maybe if they’ve been at a party, a laugh. It is completely unjust that for much of our population, those family calls bring anxiety.
It’s wrong, it’s unfair—and that’s why people are marching today.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Gene C - 06-03-2020 05:44 AM
I was comparing some pictures of the civil rights marches from this week and from the 1950's up to the early 1960's. Google "civil rights marches 1960's" and look at the images in the link below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+rights+marches+1960s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoueiKuOXpAhWBneAKHXVbCMsQ_AUoAXoECBcQAw&biw=1366&bih=625
There were two things that came to my attention in comparing the marches.
- In the images from the early 60's, when an American flag was carried by the marchers, it was displayed with respect.
- Look how the leaders, and not just those those marching in the front are dressed. Photo's from the 60's show men wearing coats and ties, women wearing dresses or skirts.
There is an impression of dignity and self respect.
Which group would you rather listen two and take more seriously?
Which group gives the impression they want to be part of the solution to the problem and are willing to work and become personally involved in a solution?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - David Lockmiller - 06-03-2020 09:11 AM
(06-03-2020 05:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: I was comparing some pictures of the civil rights marches from this week and from the 1950's up to the early 1960's. Google "civil rights marches 1960's" and look at the images in the link below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+rights+marches+1960s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoueiKuOXpAhWBneAKHXVbCMsQ_AUoAXoECBcQAw&biw=1366&bih=625
There were two things that came to my attention in comparing the marches.
- In the images from the early 60's, when an American flag was carried by the marchers, it was displayed with respect.
- Look how the leaders, and not just those those marching in the front are dressed. Photo's from the 60's show men wearing coats and ties, women wearing dresses or skirts.
There is an impression of dignity and self respect.
Which group would you rather listen two and take more seriously?
Which group gives the impression they want to be part of the solution to the problem and are willing to work and become personally involved in a solution?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
I also remember photographs of people at baseball games . . . men wearing hats like my dad would do.
I wear a "Chicago Bears" baseball cap all of the time now.
I will tell you what has impressed me the very most by far: "George Floyd Protests" have been going on all around the world and in very significant numbers. [Watch BBC World News nightly.] The second thing that has impressed me here in the United States are the daily large peaceful numbers and the ethnic diversity peppered randomly in large numbers within the crowds and also the number of women supporting strongly and peacefully such protests.
The bad part are the bad actors taking criminal advantage of the situation under the cover of darkness and the preoccupation of the police forces.
There was an almost humorous story on the local news of a Chrysler dealership in Oakland that had all of its $100,000 Dodge Hellcats stolen off the lot. The gangs of thieves broke into the showroom and forced open the electronic key locker. Then, they set off the alarms in the cars to determine their location and sped away into the night. For the best car in the showroom, the thieves drove it right through the showroom window.
The dealership owner said all of the cars had individual electronic monitors installed and that his employees had been tracking the cars all over the bay area on computer monitors.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Rob Wick - 06-03-2020 11:34 AM
As I often do, I decided to search Ida Tarbell's papers for something that would provide some guidance in my thought process, and I found the following. While its focus was on Anti-Semitism, I think it could equally apply to what our country is facing today.
"It is a horrible thought that inside America, devoted as it is in the main to humans, democratic ideals for all men and women, whatever the race or color, the seeds of pogroms should be sprouting."
Best
Rob
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Mylye2222 - 06-03-2020 12:22 PM
Also MLK and his friends weren't promoting looting and revenge attacks against white passerbys.
The
(06-03-2020 05:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: I was comparing some pictures of the civil rights marches from this week and from the 1950's up to the early 1960's. Google "civil rights marches 1960's" and look at the images in the link below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+rights+marches+1960s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoueiKuOXpAhWBneAKHXVbCMsQ_AUoAXoECBcQAw&biw=1366&bih=625
There were two things that came to my attention in comparing the marches.
- In the images from the early 60's, when an American flag was carried by the marchers, it was displayed with respect.
- Look how the leaders, and not just those those marching in the front are dressed. Photo's from the 60's show men wearing coats and ties, women wearing dresses or skirts.
There is an impression of dignity and self respect.
Which group would you rather listen two and take more seriously?
Which group gives the impression they want to be part of the solution to the problem and are willing to work and become personally involved in a solution?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
You're right about the dressing up. The 60's civil rights activists were physically showing their desire to be equal citizens. They were not advocating for racial vendetta nor playing the victim card.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Dave Taylor - 06-03-2020 02:37 PM
(06-03-2020 12:22 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote:(06-03-2020 05:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: I was comparing some pictures of the civil rights marches from this week and from the 1950's up to the early 1960's. Google "civil rights marches 1960's" and look at the images in the link below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+rights+marches+1960s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoueiKuOXpAhWBneAKHXVbCMsQ_AUoAXoECBcQAw&biw=1366&bih=625
There were two things that came to my attention in comparing the marches.
- In the images from the early 60's, when an American flag was carried by the marchers, it was displayed with respect.
- Look how the leaders, and not just those those marching in the front are dressed. Photo's from the 60's show men wearing coats and ties, women wearing dresses or skirts.
There is an impression of dignity and self respect.
Which group would you rather listen two and take more seriously?
Which group gives the impression they want to be part of the solution to the problem and are willing to work and become personally involved in a solution?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
You're right about the dressing up. The 60's civil rights activists were physically showing their desire to be equal citizens. They were not advocating for racial vendetta nor playing the victim card.
Exactly how much better dressed would you like the protesters to be before you would actually start listening to their pleas of “we don’t want to be murdered by police?” Do they all need to grow a beard and wear a top hat for you to finally care about them?
I’m astonished at the severe lack of understanding (or just overt racism) on display on a forum dedicated to Abraham Lincoln.
#BlackLivesMatter
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - AussieMick - 06-04-2020 04:58 AM
Dave, I dont see anything that suggests a severe lack of misunderstanding or overt racism in the above posts. Maybe thats my problem and I'm missing something that you have seen.
I do think it essential to , in any respected forums especially on sensitive topics, to take extra care with posts and re-read them before hitting Enter.
On a not entirely unrelated note, I am a great admirer of Flannery O'Connor short stories. Sadly I doubt that they are politically correct even though she was a supporter of Martin Luther King, and so will be unlikely to be texts in US high schools . She and James Agee are proof that the America which I admire can produce people that are decent, compassionate and caring.
America is too great a multiracial nation to fail to overcome the setbacks , shameful acts and tragedies which all nations face in their history.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Eva Elisabeth - 06-04-2020 05:11 AM
(06-03-2020 02:37 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote:And Lincoln didn't wear a tie, did he? And over here, a baseball cap is not a proper attire either, it's kids' streetwear or for sports/jogging or for the beach. Has become more tolerant though in the past yrs as we use to copy a lot that comes from the US.(06-03-2020 12:22 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote:(06-03-2020 05:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: I was comparing some pictures of the civil rights marches from this week and from the 1950's up to the early 1960's. Google "civil rights marches 1960's" and look at the images in the link below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+rights+marches+1960s&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoueiKuOXpAhWBneAKHXVbCMsQ_AUoAXoECBcQAw&biw=1366&bih=625
There were two things that came to my attention in comparing the marches.
- In the images from the early 60's, when an American flag was carried by the marchers, it was displayed with respect.
- Look how the leaders, and not just those those marching in the front are dressed. Photo's from the 60's show men wearing coats and ties, women wearing dresses or skirts.
There is an impression of dignity and self respect.
Which group would you rather listen two and take more seriously?
Which group gives the impression they want to be part of the solution to the problem and are willing to work and become personally involved in a solution?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
You're right about the dressing up. The 60's civil rights activists were physically showing their desire to be equal citizens. They were not advocating for racial vendetta nor playing the victim card.
Exactly how much better dressed would you like the protesters to be before you would actually start listening to their pleas of “we don’t want to be murdered by police?” Do they all need to grow a beard and wear a top hat for you to finally care about them?
I’m astonished at the severe lack of understanding (or just overt racism) on display on a forum dedicated to Abraham Lincoln.
#BlackLivesMatter
One thing that we in the "Old World" used to love about the US was exactly the freedom (at least that was the image) to wear and look as you like and being accepted. Pink for old ladies, sportswear (and baseball caps) in the streets, whatsoever, no fashion dress code.
Reminds me if this:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/chapter4.html
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Mylye2222 - 06-04-2020 06:00 AM
The issue is that #BlackLivesMatter is turning into #HumiliateAWhite.
The protests now don't care about Floyd anymore, when you see Antifa openly calling of hanging white people for the sake of revenge.
And asking people to kneel in repentance and filming it for the buzz ??? Those who behave like this aren't better than the white supremacist they pretend to denounce.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - David Lockmiller - 06-04-2020 06:05 AM
(06-04-2020 05:11 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: And Lincoln didn't wear a tie, did he? And over here, a baseball cap is not a proper attire either, it's kids' streetwear or for sports/jogging or for the beach. Has become more tolerant though in the past yrs as we use to copy a lot that comes from the US.
One thing that we in the "Old World" used to love about the US was exactly the freedom (at least that was the image) to wear and look as you like and being accepted. Pink for old ladies, sportswear (and baseball caps) in the streets, whatsoever, no fashion dress code.
Lincoln did wear a tie. But it was tied so that it looked like a bow tie. My favorite Lincoln photograph has this appearance; also, the photograph of Lincoln with Tad and the photography book shows the same tie configuration.
Over here, a baseball cap is considered proper casual attire by many for everyday living.
And, over here, the very highest fashion has women wearing the most "revealing" dresses for the New York Met opening and the Oscars. But the very highest fashion for the men who escort (and protect these same women from unwanted attention) must wear a fashionable tuxedo and a bow tie that reveals nothing.
I am not complaining, but does anybody know why that this is so? Some of these dresses are so outlandish and with long trailing dresses, that they must have to be transported to these big social events standing in the back of a U-Haul truck.
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - Gene C - 06-04-2020 06:51 AM
I should have clarified in my previous post that I know as a society, we are more casual in how we appear and dress in public than we were 50+ years ago. I don't expect protesters to wear a coat and tie or dresses to get their message across. Sorry if I mislead anyone in that regard.
But one thing that hasn't changed is that one's appearance and apparel creates an impression on others. It is a factor in how others perceive you and how your message is received. It can also improve your self confidence. That was a point I was trying to make.
It's also one of the concepts in a program you may have heard of "Dress For Success"
https://dressforsuccess.org/
The America I Love Needs To Do Better
RE: The America I Love Needs to Do Better - My Name Is Kate - 06-04-2020 09:41 AM
George Floyd's own family strongly disapproves of the way his name and memory is being desecrated by all the violence and destruction across America. Floyd was murdered. All four cops should be imprisoned. So should a lot of the thugs out to destroy America "in Floyd's name."
Does this black life matter?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/david-dorn-st-louis-cop-killed-looting-son-message
Statistics on suspects killed by police:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
More facts about police shootings:
https://www.newsmax.com/bernardkerik/police-shootings-crime-statistics/2019/01/22/id/899297/
https://www.dailywire.com/news/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler