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+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln - The White House Years (/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. (/thread-4220.html)
The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 11-22-2019 05:37 PM
It fascinates me. In our era of hypersecurity it seems almost fictional.
But it certainly show how and why Abraham Lincoln was a true public servant. He said he did this because without public opinion he'd be lost. It was, at least in my humble opinion, as well as a fine political strategy (getting feedback) than a willing to listen and helping his fellow citizens when possible. But I do wonder. I heard the open door policy was first started by Jefferson, but it was Lincoln who most opened the White House doors to the general citizens. Is it true?
I'm also enjoying the various, sometimes moving interwiew accounts between Lincoln and many Mr and Mrs Everybody available online. Fiction or not My favorites are the ones involving children applicants, such as the small girl of nine who pleaded her brother pardon and got it.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - RJNorton - 11-23-2019 04:52 AM
Here is an article that discusses this topic:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/09/23/people-used-to-be-able-to-walk-into-the-white-house-legally/
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 11-23-2019 05:10 AM
Thanks. A great piece indeed.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - LincolnMan - 11-28-2019 03:08 PM
And yet in that era of “openness” Lincoln was murdered. No president before him had been killed in office- though an attempt was made on Jackson. Maybe in the minds of people back then it was considered unthinkable even so. Potentially, if Booth wanted to easily kill Lincoln he might have done it using the open door policy. But then he would not have escaped. Lincoln did receive many death threats. I suppose he thought that if any of them were to be carried out they would have not been done by murdering him outright in his office. I’m sure he didn’t imagine being killed in a theater either.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - RJNorton - 11-28-2019 04:52 PM
(11-28-2019 03:08 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: I’m sure he didn’t imagine being killed in a theater either.
Bill, I think it would have been interesting as to what might have happened if the Lincolns had gone with Tad to Grover's Theatre that night. According to Leonard Grover, Booth had secured tickets to the play at Grover's just in case Mary and Abraham had chosen that theater. Booth's tickets were for the box adjoining the box where the Lincoln party would have been seated. I do not know whether it's possible to jump to the stage from the boxes at Grover's. Possibly Booth's plan of escape would have been different had the planned assassination occurred at Grover's.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 11-28-2019 06:29 PM
(11-28-2019 03:08 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: And yet in that era of “openness” Lincoln was murdered. No president before him had been killed in office- though an attempt was made on Jackson. Maybe in the minds of people back then it was considered unthinkable even so. Potentially, if Booth wanted to easily kill Lincoln he might have done it using the open door policy. But then he would not have escaped. Lincoln did receive many death threats. I suppose he thought that if any of them were to be carried out they would have not been done by murdering him outright in his office. I’m sure he didn’t imagine being killed in a theater either.
Actually Booth wanted to do his assasination with a maximum audience around him. Going to Lincoln in the WH pretending being an applicant and be only in the Executive chamber with Lincoln, Hay, Nicolay and maybe a few others wasn't enough for his narcissistic ego. So that's why he wouldn't use the office hours.
Anyway numerous people loathed Lincoln. So it might well had happened.
Add to that that the president walked sometimes completely unattended around Washington. In fact Lincoln was very lucky. Even today there is not risk zero.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - AussieMick - 11-30-2019 09:47 PM
(11-28-2019 04:52 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(11-28-2019 03:08 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: I’m sure he didn’t imagine being killed in a theater either.
Bill, I think it would have been interesting as to what might have happened if the Lincolns had gone with Tad to Grover's Theatre that night. According to Leonard Grover, Booth had secured tickets to the play at Grover's just in case Mary and Abraham had chosen that theater. Booth's tickets were for the box adjoining the box where the Lincoln party would have been seated. I do not know whether it's possible to jump to the stage from the boxes at Grover's. Possibly Booth's plan of escape would have been different had the planned assassination occurred at Grover's.
Booth (apparently) knew the 'Our American Cousin' quite well and waited for the funny line by Harry Hawk. He could have used a similar moment in “Aladdin! or His Wonderful Lamp' ... I'm sure that there must be a moment in that play where theres a big puff of smoke from the lamp and the audience wouldnt have been surprised by a Bang! followed by Booth leaping onto the stage.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - LincolnMan - 12-01-2019 07:19 AM
Lincoln’s lack of security seems appalling by today’s standards. As we know, Lincoln refused tighter standards. He was shot at while riding on a horse at night. The round from the weapon went through his hat but missed him. Was this an assassination attempt? I don’t think it was merely a stray bullet going off in the dark. It must have surely been meant for Lincoln. His views on fatalism came into play on his behaviors. Therefore the security was minimal and the open door practice continued.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - RJNorton - 12-01-2019 09:47 AM
(12-01-2019 07:19 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Was this an assassination attempt? I don’t think it was merely a stray bullet going off in the dark. It must have surely been meant for Lincoln.
I agree with you, Bill. Lincoln seemed to be in a state of denial about this.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 12-01-2019 05:50 PM
(12-01-2019 09:47 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(12-01-2019 07:19 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Was this an assassination attempt? I don’t think it was merely a stray bullet going off in the dark. It must have surely been meant for Lincoln.
I agree with you, Bill. Lincoln seemed to be in a state of denial about this.
He also didn't liked be prisoner of the bubble that's usually expected to come with a high office. But yes. He was in denial... Or maybe just didn't wanted Mary to worry. They already had the carriage "Accident" ( sabotage) intended for Lincoln but it was Mary who fell and hurt her head badly.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - RJNorton - 12-01-2019 06:04 PM
(12-01-2019 05:50 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote: [quote='RJNorton' pid='79428' dateline='1575211651']
They already had the carriage "Accident" ( sabotage) intended for Lincoln but it was Mary who fell and hurt her head badly.
Emilie, I have wondered about this. Do you feel it was sabotage for certain?
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 12-01-2019 06:45 PM
(12-01-2019 06:04 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(12-01-2019 05:50 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote: [quote='RJNorton' pid='79428' dateline='1575211651']
They already had the carriage "Accident" ( sabotage) intended for Lincoln but it was Mary who fell and hurt her head badly.
Emilie, I have wondered about this. Do you feel it was sabotage for certain?
Well, the coacher's bench was unsteady, and Mary always believed it was sabotage. This was the presidential carriage... Difficult to think of an accident whith all the deaths threats they received.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - LincolnMan - 12-02-2019 07:43 AM
(12-01-2019 09:47 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(12-01-2019 07:19 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Was this an assassination attempt? I don’t think it was merely a stray bullet going off in the dark. It must have surely been meant for Lincoln.
I agree with you, Bill. Lincoln seemed to be in a state of denial about this.
He did seem to be. With all the threats he received on his life it’s hard to believe he could be so-but he probably was.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - RJNorton - 12-02-2019 09:49 AM
(12-01-2019 06:45 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote: Well, the coacher's bench was unsteady, and Mary always believed it was sabotage. This was the presidential carriage... Difficult to think of an accident whith all the deaths threats they received.
I agree that this is perhaps the most likely explanation, but I think there are other possibilities. The stable staff consisted of men who were known to drink a lot. I do not think the relationship between the Lincolns and these men was very congenial. After Mary fired one of the men in 1864 there was a tragic stable fire. The coachman who was dismissed was the chief suspect. However, despite being arrested, the evidence against him was insufficient, and he was released.
I think the other possibilities as to the cause of Mary's carriage accident would include:
1. Washington's streets were not smooth, and over time, the bolts on the driver's seat gradually loosened. If this were the case, no malice was involved - it was simply an accident.
2. Possibly the coachmen themselves had an argument, and one secretly tried to give another a "surprise jolt."
3. Possibly a stablehand's anger was actually directed at Mary, and this was a purposeful attempt to hurt her and not an assassination attempt on Abraham.
RE: The Open Door Policy in Lincoln's White House. - Mylye2222 - 12-02-2019 09:55 AM
(12-02-2019 09:49 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(12-01-2019 06:45 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote: Well, the coacher's bench was unsteady, and Mary always believed it was sabotage. This was the presidential carriage... Difficult to think of an accident whith all the deaths threats they received.
I agree that this is perhaps the most likely explanation, but I think there are other possibilities. The stable staff consisted of men who were known to drink a lot. I do not think the relationship between the Lincolns and these men was very congenial. After Mary fired one of the men in 1864 there was a tragic stable fire. The coachman who was dismissed was the chief suspect. However, despite being arrested, the evidence against him was insufficient, and he was released.
I think the other possibilities as to the cause of Mary's carriage accident would include:
1. Washington's streets were not smooth, and over time, the bolts on the driver's seat gradually loosened. If this were the case, no malice was involved - it was simply an accident.
2. Possibly the coachmen themselves had an argument, and one secretly tried to give another a "surprise jolt."
3. Possibly a stablehand's anger was actually directed at Mary, and this was a purposeful attempt to hurt her and not an assassination attempt on Abraham.
Anyway, we will never know. But it's clear it happened a series of events in the Lincoln White House that makes wonder. And AL kept his door open to the general public! Sometimes I wonder he he was exceptionally fearless fearless of simply outright inconscient !