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Lincoln and his father-in-law - Donna McCreary - 05-14-2018 12:50 AM
In trying to sort out the relationships among the Todd family, one that does not get mentioned often is the relationship between Abraham and his father-in-law, Robert Smith Todd. When Todd came to visit his new grandson, he arranged for Mary to receive $120 per year, gave the Lincolns some land, and turned business over to Lincoln telling him to keep any money he may collected from the debts owed.
My question is, what was the relationship between the two men? Did Todd have an opinion of Lincoln before they met? They seem to have gotten along well when the Lincolns came to Lexington, but what about before then? Why did he help the Lincolns when he did not help his other children? Did he favor Mary? or did he feel sorry for her because she married "beneath her station in society."
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - RJNorton - 05-14-2018 03:49 AM
In addition to Donna's questions, I would like to ask if anyone knows where Robert Smith Todd stayed when he made his December 1843 visit to Springfield?
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - Gene C - 05-14-2018 06:08 AM
My best guess would be her father stayed at her sisters home in Springfield.
The same sister (and her husband - Ninian Edwards) who objected to Mary marrying Abraham because of his social position and prospects for the future.
Elizabeth probably shared those feelings and thoughts with her father, who for whatever reason (I'm guessing he favored Mary) helped the Lincoln's out financially.
For a little more info, try this @ Mr. Lincoln's White House
http://www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org/residents-visitors/relatives-and-residents/relatives-residents-elizabeth-todd-edwards/
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - Susan Higginbotham - 05-14-2018 08:24 AM
I would have to dig, but I believe he also gave some land to Elizabeth Edwards and her daughter at about the same time he made the gift to Mary.
I dug and found it (not bad for a Monday morning)! It's mentioned in an article by James T. Hickey in the Nov. 1979 Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society titled "Robert S. Todd Seeks a Job for His Son-in-Law, Abraham Lincoln." Todd gave land to the Wallaces, the Lincolns, and Julia Edwards in March 1844. He mentions the transaction in the letter to Ninian Edwards, and also discusses using his influence to procure an appointment for Lincoln:
"In a few days 1 shall send forward executed the deeds as originally intended, for Dr Wallace,
Julia Edwards, & for Mr Lincoln & Mary, and desire that each and all of you, shall use it, for
your best advantage in any way you may deem best. Mr Lincoln, wrote me a few days since and
Suggested that he was going to housekeeping; I wish him to avail himself of this Land immediately if it will be of any advantage or add to his comfort in any way. . . .
"Mr. Lincoln I discover is using his influence & talents for the Whig Cause. I think he is right;
for a good government should be first in the mind of every patriot. I can use influence here if
Mr Clay is elected (of which there can be no doubt) to procure some appointment for him,
which will keep him out of Congress until his Situation in a monied point of view, will enable
him to take a stand in Congress, creditable both to himself and Country. Such as District Attorney or
Judge. I will write him in a few days. Present me to all my children and grandchildren in the
Kindest manner."
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - Donna McCreary - 05-14-2018 08:46 PM
I did find my notes from a letter written by Robert Smith Todd to Ninian Edwards in 1846.
"I feel more than gratified that my daughters have all married gentlemen whom I respect and esteem and should be pleased. If it could ever be in my power to give them a more substantial evidence of my feelings than in mere words or professions whether it will ever be in my power I can not say, perhaps it matters little. I will be satisfied if they discharge all their duties and make as good wives, as I think they have good husbands."
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - kerry - 05-20-2018 01:39 AM
I believe in "House of Abraham" by Stephen Berry, there is mention that Lincoln wrote to Robert Todd to ask for Mary's hand instead of going through Ninian, and he wrote to Ninian "Who is Abraham Lincoln?" It may be a different book. The document does not exist - it was family lore. Always thought that was kind of interesting.
More interesting is what Mary Edwards Brown said (she was Elizabeth Edwards' granddaughter), which granted was in the 1940s, so her memory may not have been great. But she says her mother told her the reason the engagement broke up was because Robert Todd referred to Lincoln as "white trash" and opposed the marriage. She said "there's another story that Ninian was the one opposed," and it's odd she never clarified why there were 2 stories going on, and the wording makes me think that was more the official story. If that is actually true, I don't know what could have made him change his mind.
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - Susan Higginbotham - 05-20-2018 08:34 AM
(05-20-2018 01:39 AM)kerry Wrote: I believe in "House of Abraham" by Stephen Berry, there is mention that Lincoln wrote to Robert Todd to ask for Mary's hand instead of going through Ninian, and he wrote to Ninian "Who is Abraham Lincoln?" It may be a different book. The document does not exist - it was family lore. Always thought that was kind of interesting.
It is a different book. There's nothing in Berry that I can see about Lincoln writing to Robert Todd; indeed, Berry has Lincoln and Mary reconciling in Jacksonville and marrying five weeks later only "two hours after their decision to wed." (He's also in the camp that Lincoln married out of guilt for breaking their engagement, not for love.)
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - kerry - 05-20-2018 11:08 AM
(05-20-2018 08:34 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:(05-20-2018 01:39 AM)kerry Wrote: I believe in "House of Abraham" by Stephen Berry, there is mention that Lincoln wrote to Robert Todd to ask for Mary's hand instead of going through Ninian, and he wrote to Ninian "Who is Abraham Lincoln?" It may be a different book. The document does not exist - it was family lore. Always thought that was kind of interesting.
It is a different book. There's nothing in Berry that I can see about Lincoln writing to Robert Todd; indeed, Berry has Lincoln and Mary reconciling in Jacksonville and marrying five weeks later only "two hours after their decision to wed." (He's also in the camp that Lincoln married out of guilt for breaking their engagement, not for love.)
Hmm can't find the book I read that in. I was confusing the mention in Berry's book of the letters from Ninian "from before your marriage" that he seemed to be blackmailing Lincoln with during the War - that was quite an odd passage.
Not to belabor the endless discussion of marrying for honor versus love, but I believe Speed told Herndon he married for honor, which to me seems at odds with their whole exchange. Speed confirms that he's happily in a loving marriage to Fanny, so Lincoln suddenly marries for honor? He could have done that without any such reassurance.
RE: Lincoln and his father-in-law - Mylye2222 - 12-30-2019 09:40 AM
(05-20-2018 01:39 AM)kerry Wrote: I believe in "House of Abraham" by Stephen Berry, there is mention that Lincoln wrote to Robert Todd to ask for Mary's hand instead of going through Ninian, and he wrote to Ninian "Who is Abraham Lincoln?" It may be a different book. The document does not exist - it was family lore. Always thought that was kind of interesting.
More interesting is what Mary Edwards Brown said (she was Elizabeth Edwards' granddaughter), which granted was in the 1940s, so her memory may not have been great. But she says her mother told her the reason the engagement broke up was because Robert Todd referred to Lincoln as "white trash" and opposed the marriage. She said "there's another story that Ninian was the one opposed," and it's odd she never clarified why there were 2 stories going on, and the wording makes me think that was more the official story. If that is actually true, I don't know what could have made him change his mind.
Whoever the opponent was, it was clearly sure Lincoln was not seen as the best bachelor for class reasons.