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+--- Thread: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" (/thread-2269.html)
"The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Linda Anderson - 03-13-2015 11:37 AM
The National Book Critics Circle Awards "...which are given in six categories, were presented Thursday in a ceremony at the New School. Finalists and winners are selected by the board of directors of the National Book Critics Circle.
"David Brion Davis won the nonfiction award for “The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation,” the third volume of his trilogy and the culmination of nearly 50 years of research."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/13/books/lila-by-marilynne-robinson-honored-as-top-fiction-by-national-book-critics-circle.html?&hpw&rref=books&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0
Here is the NYT's review.
"In 1862, when Nathaniel Hawthorne headed south from New England to see the Civil War firsthand, he came upon a group of former slaves trudging northward. 'They seemed a kind of creature by themselves, not altogether human,' he wrote, 'but perhaps quite as good, and akin to the fauns and rustic deities of olden times.' 'Whoever may be benefited by the results of this war,' he added, 'it will not be the present generation of negroes.'
"Hawthorne’s stunning comparison of real men and women to half-human creatures, even if kindly intended, gets to the heart of David Brion Davis’s “The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation,” the richly textured final volume in his exceptional trilogy about slavery in the Western Hemisphere. 'I have long interpreted the problem of slavery,' he writes in his introduction, 'as centering on the impossibility of converting humans into the totally compliant, submissive, accepting chattel symbolized by Aristotle’s ideal of the ‘natural slave.’ ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/books/review/the-problem-of-slavery-in-the-age-of-emancipation-by-david-brion-davis.html
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Rsmyth - 03-13-2015 02:18 PM
Unlike his fellow poets and New England writers, Hawthorn was far from being an abolitionist in his view of Blacks.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Wild Bill - 03-13-2015 02:54 PM
Probably no other figure in American History has had the misfortune of being more described and psychoanalyzed than the black American. As Linda points out, the importance of the question "How dehumanizing slavery was to both the master and the slave," is widely debated in American History. It began with Ulrich B Phillips and his praise of slavery as a civilizing factor of quasi-barbaric Africans in the New World in his two volumes from the teens and twenties of the Twentieth Century, American Negro Slavery, and Life and Labor in the Old South. He was roundly attacked in his assumptions by Kenneth Stampp's The Peculiar Institution (1956), which asserted that the Negro slave was nothing more than a white man in a black skin.
Even more debated is the notion that slavery in the United States was the cruelest slave system in the whole world. The usual comparison is between North America and Latin America. The question was first popularized by Frank Tannenbaum in his book, Slave and Citizen. Its most important advocate in Latin America has been Gilberto Freyre and his study of Brazilian slavery, The Masters and the Slaves. In these accounts, the humanity of Latin American slavery is compared favorably with that in the American South, the epitome of evil.
But nothing hit the historical and popular study of slavery than Stanley Elkins’ Slavery. Here he asserted that American Negro slavery was so debasing as to create a new personality called Sambo. Sambo was the slave who was sort of a Step ‘n’ Fetchit (I am revealing my age, here), or a smiling, bowing version of what is now erroneously labeled an Uncle Tom (the real Uncle Tom died under the lash rather than rat on his friends). Child-like, always ready to please, never negative, carrying out the master’s orders, never looking at a white woman in the face, etc., etc., you get the stereotype, common in movies and minstrel shows. Elkins found this type common in Nazi Concentration Camps, hence its controversial impact on the historical world.
This brought on a mass of criticism, most of which is in Ann J Lane’s The Debate Over Slavery, where it was pointed out that a multitude of personality types existed in the slave community ranging from Sambo to Zambo, the rebellious bondsman or bondswoman. Many thought slavery was more like a jail term than a real personality changer.
Then came Eugene Genovese’s, Roll, Jordan, Roll, a massive study of the complexities of the slave community, which can be accessed in two shorter volumes, John Blassingame’s The Slave Community, and Peter Kolchin’s American Slavery. Hee slavery does not halt the creation of a purely African-American culture and family structure that made the American South the only slave regime that procreated itself without the necessity of constant African imports (although they existed illegally).
I think that many of these volumes approach what David Brion Davis wants to say in a much readable format. Davis is a first class historical intellectual and his The Problem of Slavery in Western Culture (3 vols, with various titles) reads more like moral philosophy than mere history.
A new study, Edward E Baptist, The Half Has Never Been Told, has the most recent politically correct account, using the terms Enslaver instead of master and mistress, and Work Camp instead of plantation, and Enslaved rather than slave. It is also a good study of how slavery dominated the US economy in the first half of the 19th century. The use of “correct” terms is endemic in the history of slavery and can be seen between Philips’ use of Slave Crime rather than Stampp’s use Slave Resistance for the same things.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Gene C - 03-13-2015 04:19 PM
(03-13-2015 02:54 PM)Wild Bill Wrote: A new study, Edward E Baptist, The Half Has Never Been Told, has the most recent politically correct account, using the terms Enslaver instead of master and mistress, and Work Camp instead of plantation, and Enslaved rather than slave. It is also a good study of how slavery dominated the US economy in the first half of the 19th century. The use of “correct” terms is endemic in the history of slavery and can be seen between Philips’ use of Slave Crime rather than Stampp’s use Slave Resistance for the same things.
Slavery certainly is a stain on our history, but we can't change the past. I do wish some of these politically correct types when writing about slavery would also mention modern sex slavery that exist now worldwide including our country, and attack it as much as they do the slavery in our past history. What is currently going on now is much worse, it's to bad so many of our country and world leaders want to keep their heads buried in the sand and do so little about it.
It is the typical whine and complain about the past, but do next to nothing to solve the problem as it currently exist.
Learning all this information is useless if we don't learn from it and use it to make necessary changes in our world.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - L Verge - 03-13-2015 05:40 PM
Agreed, Gene. And, the learning and changing must come from all sides of society and must come from the people themselves - not from government edicts and "entitlements" designed to earn votes instead of progress.
Bill - What do you think of the research and writings of Ira Berlin - specifically Many Thousands Gone?
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Linda Anderson - 03-13-2015 07:25 PM
(03-13-2015 04:19 PM)Gene C Wrote: Slavery certainly is a stain on our history, but we can't change the past. I do wish some of these politically correct types when writing about slavery would also mention modern sex slavery that exist now worldwide including our country, and attack it as much as they do the slavery in our past history. What is currently going on now is much worse, it's to bad so many of our country and world leaders want to keep their heads buried in the sand and do so little about it.
Gene, as horrific as modern sex slavery is, why is it "much worse" than the sexual exploitation of black women under slavery?
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Gene C - 03-13-2015 10:09 PM
(03-13-2015 07:25 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Gene, as horrific as modern sex slavery is, why is it "much worse" than the sexual exploitation of black women under slavery?
We comment (and rightly so) about the horrors of slavery 150 years ago, but in our modern times slavery still exists, it is world wide and in our own country. World wide, it affects more people, here mostly young girls and children are targeted, but we do very little to stop it today. There are no kind and caring slave owners in this type of modern slavery. That is why in my opinion it is a much worse problem today. Unlike 150 years ago, where is the public outrage that will put an end to it?
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sex+slavery+in+the+us
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - LincolnToddFan - 03-13-2015 10:18 PM
I have to agree with Linda. A few years ago I became very excited at the idea of tracing my ancestry. I only got as far as a plantation in Alabama in the early 19th century, and a Scottish-American overseer. I appreciate all of the erudite, interesting contributions and comments on this thread but I don't think I can articulate how frustrating and heartbreaking that was for me and many others like me.
In the new LIFE book about Lincoln, former Congressman Julian Bond of Georgia explains his experiment with tracing his ancestry, remarkably similar to mine. His great grandmother was a slave girl in Kentucky in 1863, given as a wedding gift to a new bride. And when the young bride became pregnant, the young bridegroom exercised his right to substitute his wife's slave girl for marital relations while the wife was indisposed.(pg#252)
The result was James Bond, the congressman's grandfather. So, no. I do not agree that it is much worse now than it was then. How so? In what way? There are legions of influential advocates today-the past and current queens of Jordan(Noor and Rania) movie stars like Angelina Jolie- espousing the cause of unfortunate women and girls degraded in this manner. With the exception of a handful of people who were considered fanatics, who stood up for exploited female slaves in ante-bellum America?
Sexual slavery in anytime-past or present- must be the most dehumanizing of experiences. Anyone who endures it and survives has nothing but my admiration and respect.
I know that miscegenation was illegal not only in the South, but in most of America until relatively recently. So how did Americans responsible for putting those laws on the books explain and justify all the mulatto/ mixed race men and women? Were White men ever prosecuted for having relations with slave women and girls ? Or was the point of the miscegenation laws in place-as I suspect- to protect only White females?
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - Linda Anderson - 03-13-2015 10:36 PM
Thank you, Toia. You answered far better than I ever could.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - My Name Is Kate - 03-14-2015 12:25 AM
(03-13-2015 10:18 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: I know that miscegenation was illegal not only in the South, but in all of America until relatively recently. So how did Americans responsible for putting those laws on the books explain and justify all the mulatto and mixed race men and women? Were White men ever prosecuted having relations with slave women and girls ? Or was the point of the miscegenation laws in place-as I suspect- to protect only White females?I would hazard to guess that the white men (and maybe white women too, and who knows, maybe even a few of the black mothers of the mulattoes, as well as some of the mulattoes themselves) justified or condoned or tolerated all the miscegenation as something that could ultimately be beneficial to the black race (you know, something along the lines of "it'll do them/us good to get some white blood in their/our veins.") All one has to do is look at what is happening today to see that that is a distinct possibility. There are more than a few black males (I have no idea what percentage, though) who seem to prefer white females over black females. Just look at some of the rich and famous black men in sports, TV, etc., who are married to white women and have mixed race children. Why do they prefer white women? Was there evidence, back in the days when the miscegenation laws were created, that some black men might actually prefer white women? Is that too hard to believe?
I am not so sure that the miscegenation laws were designed to protect white women so much as designed to keep the white women available only to white men. The white men who created those laws were thinking mainly of themselves, IMO. Could it be that some black men today are having their revenge against those laws? It seems to me that white women are mainly just pawns in all this.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - LincolnToddFan - 03-14-2015 01:41 AM
[ would hazard to guess that the white men (and maybe white women too, and who knows, maybe even a few of the black mothers of the mulattoes, as well as some of the mulattoes themselves) justified or condoned or tolerated all the miscegenation as something that could ultimately be beneficial to the black race (you know, something along the lines of "it'll do them/us good to get some white blood in their/our veins.") All one has to do is look at what is happening today to see that that is a distinct possibility. There are more than a few black males (I have no idea what percentage, though) who seem to prefer white females over black females. Just look at some of the rich and famous black men in sports, TV, etc., who are married to white women and have mixed race children. Why do they prefer white women? Was there evidence, back in the days when the miscegenation laws were created, that some black men might actually prefer white women? Is that too hard to believe]
Kate,
The short answer is YES. It is indeed that hard to believe. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to insinuate that many of these Black women welcoming an infusion of White blood on the grounds that it will "do us some good" had a choice. Putting aside the question of exactly what kind of "good" their master/rapist's blood would be doing them and their children, these were not romantic, fuzzy love affairs we are discussing.
Do you really think these women and girls had a choice, when the master or his sons or overseers crept down to the slave cabins at night do their chattel "some good"? Would you like to venture a guess about what would have happened if these females or their menfolk had resisted the benefits of master's sexual overtures?
Nope. Neither would I.
I am sure there were indeed male slaves lusting after massa's woman. But they acted on that attraction in forfeit of their lives, unlike their masters and overseers, who could and did act out their attraction to Black women in what must have been astonishing numbers given the not insignificant numbers of mixed race people at that time.
Me and my ancestors are living proof of that attraction, and we are not the half of it.
As far as current AA male celebrities, who knows? You have a point there. There is undoubtedly a "forbidden fruit" aspect to interracial dating...on both sides. Lena Horne, Whoopi Goldberg, Diana Ross, Mrs. Robert DeNiro, Marian Wright Edelman, Mrs Roger Ebert, Dorothy Dandridge, Diahann Carroll, Paula Patton Thicke...these are just a few of the famous Black women who have been involved with White men who-at least in the cases of DeNiro and Thicke-have rather emphatically stated their preference for women of color.
And last but not least there is yours truly. I am an AA woman who loves Black men. I love men period. But I have been pursued by and have dated, in no particular order... a German-Irish law student, a Greek aspiring actor, a Jewish businessman, an Italian male model, and very recently a minor Austro/Brit aristocrat. Not once did I spend time with these guys in anticipation that their Caucasian blood would do me some good. I was with them because in each case I found them warm, funny, smart, sexy and very definitely attractive.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - My Name Is Kate - 03-14-2015 02:14 AM
When it comes to sexual slavery, the mind can work in strange ways. Mothers blaming (instead of protecting) their daughters who are victimized by their mother's husband (i.e.: their "father"). Victimized daughters who hated the victimization, yet turn out to be prostitutes. So it is not too hard for me to believe that some of the black mothers who against their will were forced to give birth to mulatto children, tried to find ways to ease the pain of the experience. It is also not too hard for me to believe that some slaves, both male and female, hated their own race and blamed it for their enslavement. I used to believe that women were inferior because they were weak and had no control, no power, no self-respect, etc., etc. I did not (in those days) think of myself as a woman (nor as a man).
As for all this attraction between sexes of different races having much, if anything, to do with "love", I find that extremely hard to believe, although in rare cases I suppose anything is possible. I do not even think that "love" between sexes of the same race is anything but a one in a million shot, without being complicated a hundredfold by the race factor. And when I say "sexes" I mean either opposite sexes or same sex, makes no difference.
So now you all can pity me for my warped view of life and the "wonderful" things I've missed in it. I certainly had no intention of discussing any of this...
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - LincolnToddFan - 03-14-2015 02:47 AM
Kate-
No I don't pity you at all. I actually agree with your first paragraph.Self-hatred and self rejection were probably a big part of the slave mentality.(Not for all,of course) But they did not come to this country hating themselves and I doubt they were born hating themselves. The idea that they were an inferior, debased race was bred into them over time and became an accepted way of thinking about themselves.
How can it have been otherwise? Their owners and political leaders told them so. Their pastors told them so, and backed up their statements with Scripture. This self-hatred that some AA's had for themselves has been carried over into our own time. Listen to the lyrics of contemporary rap music-if you can stand to, that is. I can't. Listen to how many of the most successful AA comedians and regular people call one another the N-word.(That word and it's use among Black people is a rather complex subject. Blacks can and do use it as a term of solidarity and affection among themselves. But that's a whole different topic. For the most part it's degrading no matter who uses it, Black or White. And it started with American slavery)
Black self-hatred is manifested in the appalling Black-on-Black crime statistics, the self-defeating victimization of out of wedlock births, and the disproportionate numbers of young AA's who perform poorly in school. (I vividly remember being bullied and harassed as a schoolgirl because I "talked White" and was too bookish.) There is a devastating comedy routine done by Chris Rock where he advises all residents of the ghetto who fear being robbed to hide their valuables in bookcases because "books are like Kryptonite to a n----r". It's not only hilarious, it's sad and it's true..
I'm bringing all this up not in a spirit of "blame the White guy...it's all his fault because of slavery!" Nothing could be further from the truth. When I remember Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, MLK, Fannie Lou Hamer, Bloody Sunday and the Edmund Pettus Bridge at Selma, and all that symbolized...and then drive down the street and see young, barely literate AA men running around with their pants around their knees I think those people must be spinning in their graves. And I want to weep.
But it didn't begin in a vacuum. It started with Blacks being conditioned to hate themselves.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - My Name Is Kate - 03-14-2015 03:11 AM
(03-14-2015 02:47 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: But they did not come to this country hating themselves and I doubt they were born hating themselves....How do you know that they didn't come to this country hating themselves? My understanding is that some black Africans sold other black Africans into slavery. Even today there is a good deal of violence and hatred among the different African tribes (sure hope that isn't a racist term). Was that all caused by white people too?
...This self-hatred that some AA's have of themselves has been carried over into our own time. Listen to the lyrics of contemporary rap music...
I have read some rap lyrics online. Seems to me there is even more hatred of white people, including white women, than there is for themselves. Why isn't that illegal? So there can be attraction and hatred and disrespect all in the same package. I wouldn't be surprised that the disrespect is a big ingredient of the attraction, if the truth be told. The white rapist slaveholders probably felt that way too.
RE: "The Problem of Slavery in the Age of Emancipation" - LincolnToddFan - 03-14-2015 03:50 AM
Africans sold one another into slavery and they were hardly the first race to do so. Throughout the history of slavery this was quite common, and not because they all hated one another. It was quite simply BUSINESS. And why do you act as if Africans are the only race of people guilty of violence toward one another Kate? Are you quite serious?
Do you realize what is going on in Mexico and South America RIGHT NOW with their drug cartels?? What has happened in the Balkans with their "ethnic cleansing"? In parts of Southern Italy with the Mafia? In the Philippines with the Christians vs. their Muslim minorities? In Northern Ireland with Catholics vs. Protestant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
As for most rap music, no offense but Whites are bit players in the majority of it.."small potatoes" to borrow a phrase from The Godfather II.
Most of the venom is directed toward AA women who are called the most degrading names, usually of a sexual nature and other Black "n---gas". The White establishment does feature, but only in a minor way.
The idea that Whites are the target of most rap music is simply not true, despite what Americans are being told by Sean Hannity and the other asinine talking heads over at Fox News.
Why it isn't illegal probably has a lot to do with our Constitution. It protects free speech.
ETA: I have no idea what went on in the minds of the men who were violating their slaves, except maybe lust, power and entitlement, the mentality of all rapists no matter what race, color or creed. If you have other information I wish you'd enlighten us all.