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+--- Thread: Mary and Tad in Germany (/thread-1844.html)
Mary and Tad in Germany - LINCOLND - 07-31-2014 01:13 AM
Does anyone know if a photograph exists of either Mary or Tad while they were living in Germany.
RE: Mary and Tad in Germany - RJNorton - 07-31-2014 04:06 AM
Hi Dan and welcome to the forum!
According to Ruth Painter Randall's Lincoln's Sons the photo of Tad below was taken in "Frankfurt am Main, Germany, when he was between 15 and 17."
![[Image: tad2.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/tad2.jpg)
Regarding Mary I do not have any information on the photographer or place or date of the photo below. But Lloyd Ostendorf (in The Photographs of Mary Todd Lincoln) said it's from c.1869 so it might have been taken in Germany (if Ostendorf's date is correct). But that is just a guess. Jean Baker dates the photo "around 1867" which would indicate it was not taken in Germany. Ishbel Ross guesses 1869 but says "she was about to escape to Europe." Justin and Linda Levitt Turner simply say it was taken "during her early widowhood." I would lean to it not being taken in Germany, but of the known photos of her, it's the only possibility.
![[Image: marytoddlincoln37.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/photos/marytoddlincoln37.jpg)
RE: Mary and Tad in Germany - LINCOLND - 07-31-2014 04:58 AM
Thanks for the reply - much appreciated !
RE: Mary and Tad in Germany - Donna McCreary - 07-31-2014 10:19 PM
Most recently, scholars say the above photo of Mary was taken in 1862 or 1863 when she was in mourning for Willie. All of the trims on the dress indicate mourning for a child, and the style of the skirt and bodice were popular fashions for '62-'63. Plus, if you look closely at Ostendorf's book, you will find a head and shoulders photo of Mary that he dated as 1861. She is wearing the same dress in both photos.
RE: Mary and Tad in Germany - RJNorton - 08-01-2014 03:48 AM
Right, Donna. In Lincoln's Photographs A Complete Album Ostendorf's caption for that particular photo is "Mrs. Lincoln in mourning attire after Willie Lincoln's death in 1862." The same caption is in Hamilton and Ostendorf's Lincoln in Photographs: An Album of Every Known Pose. I wonder how Jean Baker arrived at 1867? I wonder if most of those earlier authors were going by Ostendorf's guess in The Photographs of Mary Todd Lincoln.
RE: Mary and Tad in Germany - Donna McCreary - 02-10-2015 01:16 PM
(08-01-2014 03:48 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Right, Donna. In Lincoln's Photographs A Complete Album Ostendorf's caption for that particular photo is "Mrs. Lincoln in mourning attire after Willie Lincoln's death in 1862." The same caption is in Hamilton and Ostendorf's Lincoln in Photographs: An Album of Every Known Pose. I wonder how Jean Baker arrived at 1867? I wonder if most of those earlier authors were going by Ostendorf's guess in The Photographs of Mary Todd Lincoln.
Roger, you know how it goes . . . someone sees a photo of a woman wearing a dark dress, bonnet, and veil . . . and suddenly it is a photo of a widow. No one considered trying to date Mary's photos by the fashions she wore until a female historian stirred the pot and asked the right questions Hmm. . . wonder who that was??
