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+--- Thread: Lincoln on Slavery (/thread-173.html)
Lincoln on Slavery - Craig Hipkins - 08-04-2012 04:47 PM
I have always been interested in Lincoln's views on slavery both before and during the war. Some people have often been critical about his views claiming that he took a conciliatory stance and was not firm enough in his abolitionist convictions. What these people fail to realize is that Lincoln was a politictian. He attempted to apease the herd mentality and take a middle line. I believe that Lincoln was always an abolitionist, and hated the evil of slavery since his early days in Kentucky when he saw slave gangs walking through town.
The following is from a speech Lincoln made in 1858. I believe that it was during the Lincoln-Douglas debates but I could be mistaken. He says:
Suppose it is true, that the negro is inferior to the white, in the gifts of nature; is it not the exact reverse justice that the white should , for that reason, take from the negro, any part of the little which has been given him? "give to him that is needy" is the christian rule of charity; but "take from him that is needy" is the rule of slavery."
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - LincolnMan - 08-04-2012 05:38 PM
For any in this Forum interested in Craig's thread subject-Lincoln on Slavery- recommend the book: Vindicating Lincoln by Thomas L. Krannawitter. Among other things, the book addresses some of the statements made by Lincoln about slavery that some have claimed reveal his racism. He especially looks at some of Lincoln's statements during the debates with Douglas.
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - RJNorton - 08-04-2012 05:45 PM
Craig, go here to see the source.
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - Craig Hipkins - 08-05-2012 07:19 PM
(08-04-2012 05:38 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: For any in this Forum interested in Craig's thread subject-Lincoln on Slavery- recommend the book: Vindicating Lincoln by Thomas L. Krannawitter. Among other things, the book addresses some of the statements made by Lincoln about slavery that some have claimed reveal his racism. He especially looks at some of Lincoln's statements during the debates with Douglas.
Bill, I will have to check this book out.
Craig
(08-04-2012 05:45 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Craig, go here to see the source.
Roger,
Thanks for that link. I got that quote out of Lincoln's writings from the Library of Congress. Although it was placed in the Lincoln-Douglas debate pages I was not sure that it actually belonged there.
Thanks.
Craig
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - LincolnMan - 08-05-2012 07:26 PM
Let us know what you think when done with it, please.
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - Craig Hipkins - 08-05-2012 07:38 PM
(08-05-2012 07:26 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: Let us know what you think when done with it, please.
Bill,
I'll check out the library this week for a copy, if not...I might have to order it from amazon much to the dismay of my wife who thinks I have enough Lincoln books already
Craig
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - Rob Wick - 08-05-2012 08:14 PM
much to the dismay of my wife who thinks I have enough Lincoln books already
Impossible!
Best
Rob
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - LincolnMan - 08-05-2012 08:23 PM
Yes, our wives our saints to put up with us -for sure.
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - Craig Hipkins - 08-06-2012 05:55 AM
Rob and Bill,
I totally agree. There can never be enough Lincoln books!
Craig
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - RJNorton - 08-06-2012 09:16 AM
Hi Craig. Regarding that fragment I think Hay and Nicolay found quite a few of these and did the best they could at assigning them dates. In the Collected Works the Galesburg debate comes just pages later; thus, due to the nature of what Lincoln said, it looks to me like they felt Lincoln wrote it in the fall of 1858.
They also gave an August 1, 1858, date to this fragment: "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy."
The explanation for the August 1, 1858, date is given as, "The date which has been assigned to this document is apparently pure conjecture. The manuscript is associated with no speech or occasion known to the editors. It was given by Mrs. Lincoln to her friend Myra Bradwell of Chicago, who together with her husband, Judge James B. Bradwell, succeeded in having Mrs. Lincoln released from the institution in which she was confined as insane in her later years. The scrap of paper is unsigned, but a signature clipped from another document has been pasted below the definition."
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - Craig Hipkins - 08-07-2012 04:52 PM
Roger,
Excellent information. I am familiar with the passage but never knew the history behind it. It seems there are a lot of these Lincoln fragments out there. I guess that it is all part of the Lincoln legend and lore.
Craig
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - RJNorton - 08-08-2012 04:46 AM
I agree, Craig. Here's another fragment I like. They put an 1862 date on this one:
"The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds."
RE: Lincoln on Slavery - LincolnMan - 10-11-2012 07:16 AM
From Lincoln On Race & Slavery by Henry Louis Gates Jr.:
"...what is clear is that Lincoln hated slavery, not only because of its brutality and inhumanity, but first and foremost because it constituted the theft of another person's labor-both the labor of the slave and that of the white men who had, in effect, to compete disadvantageously in the marketplace with slave labor-and he was exceptionally clear and forceful about saying so, as early as 1854. Indeed, Lincoln's central opposition to slavery seems to have been deeply rooted in this economic premise, rather than only or primarily stemming from humanitarian grounds."