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Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - RJNorton - 05-27-2014 08:30 AM
In the index of her biography of Mary Lincoln Jean Baker includes an entry titled "non-feminist views of." She lists a few pages, and here are a few quotes from those pages:
"Overnight Mary Lincoln had become public property, a role for which she was ill prepared despite her interest in politics. Henceforth she was of two minds about this awful but wonderful prominence. On the one hand, she remembered that the ladies of her generation were never mentioned in the press, save - and only a few then - after death. Female abolitionists and suffragists gained no respect from her; she believed them unwomanly creatures. She had no interest in obtaining the vote, intending instead to influence her husband. On the other hand, she delighted in favorable press reports that she was, according to the New York Tribune, 'amiable and accomplished . . . vivacious and graceful ...a sparkling talker.' What Mary Lincoln was unprepared for was the inevitable rebuke, which as every politician including her husband knew, lurked in glory's shadows."
On another page Jean Baker writes, "Impatient with what she considered silly and undereducated females, she could not accept the other extreme: intellectual reformers working for women's rights."
I am just curious what forum members think. Assuming Jean Baker is correct, do these views of Mary's come as a surprise? Or does this "fit" with your image of Mary as a person? Because of her definite interest in politics I would have thought Mary might have been more interested in getting involved with the suffrage issue, but it appears just the opposite is the case. Does this seem logical to folks? Also, when Jean Baker uses the term "non-feminist views" is this a proper way of describing a lady who lived in the 19th century?
Thank you for any possible input.
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - HerbS - 05-27-2014 08:45 AM
I don't think she had any communication with Dr.Mary Walker.Dr.Walker was big on "Woman's Rights".I will try to get more information.-Herb
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - Gene C - 05-27-2014 10:46 AM
IMO, freedom for the slaves and the divided country was a more pressing issue than women'sufferage. I agree she was unprepared for the criticism she was in for.
From reading Ruth Painter Randall's book, I get the impression that Mary followed Abraham's views on abolition and was probably in favor of it before him. She may not have seen the political consequences of supporting the uncompromising postions taken by most abolitionist prior to the war. Lincoln seenmed to be focussed on preserving the union as his priority, freedom for the slaves was secondary. RPR indicated Mary enjoyed meeting abolitionist (incl women) at the White House and was very respectful toward them.
Haven't read Jean Baker's book, haven't read alot about Mary, but at this point, I'm not in agreement with some of Ms. Bakers statements. I would need to hear more.
I would be interested in her views about Herndon.
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - Eva Elisabeth - 05-27-2014 03:21 PM
(05-27-2014 08:30 AM)RJNorton Wrote: On another page Jean Baker writes, "Impatient with what she considered silly and undereducated females, she could not accept the other extreme: intellectual reformers working for women's rights."At least she obviously changed her view in later life since it was Myra Bradwell whose help she sought and received to get released from Batavia.
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - Linda Anderson - 05-27-2014 03:58 PM
You can get a sense of what educated women in the 19th century (as well as the 20th century) had to face in the following passage from Fanny Seward's diary written when she was eighteen. "Mr. Browning, with his wornout notions of man, the chief end of woman—quite provoked me" but she did not tell him she wanted to be a writer because she also had "a horror of appearing to class myself with the blue-stocking number."
Fanny did have strong female role models in her life like Charlotte Cushman and Dorothea Dix whom she wished to emulate but it takes a certain type of personality to buck society's expectations of how women should live their lives. I wish she had recorded what her father said in response to Mr. Browning!
"Smithsonian Institute. Left some cards which were due, at differ-
ent houses. Senator Browning of Ill. Dined with us, en famille.
At dinner Father told him that twenty, (he meant eighteen)
years ago, he had his life insured to provide something for
my maintenance when I grew up. He h did not want me
to marry some scamp & be ill-treated. Mr. Browning thought
young ladies ^though not thinking too much of it^ ought to look forward to marriage as a
desirable event. Father thought it was a great risk &
chance, that even marriage for love was as likely to prove
unhappy as not, for at my age I would not be
capable of understanding the charades of any man.
He wished to provide for my ^future^ comfort independent
of any consideration of marriage. Mr. Browning thought
it was best for young ladies to be married and not be
left alone—but our sisters and brothers ^will^ would marry &
leave us. "Some of them will and some of them won't" said
Father looking at Augustus with a smile. Mr. Brown-
ing, with his wornout notions of man, the chief end of
woman—quite provoked me. It was on the end of
my tounge (sic) to say that in case of necessity I thought I
would be able to support myself—but as he might have
asked how? And I should have had to say something
of my hopes of writing, I thought best to be silent. I
have a horror of appearing to class myself with the blue-
stocking number. So I kept still, and Father maintain-
ed the woman side better than I would have done. How
great a contrast were his generous and manly senti-
ments, compared with the conceited old notions of Mr. B."
http://www.lib.rochester.edu/index.cfm?page=1420&Print=497
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - Eva Elisabeth - 05-27-2014 04:18 PM
This is how Jane Grey Swisshelm recalled one White House reception: "When I came to Mrs. Lincoln, she did not catch the name at first, and asked to hear it again, then repeated it, and a sudden glow of pleasure lit her face, as she held out her hand and said how very glad she was to see me. I objected to giving her my hand because my black glove would soil her white one; but she said: 'Then I shall preserve the glove to remember a great pleasure, for I have long wished to see you.'...I understood at once that I had met one with whom I was in sympathy. No politeness could have summoned that sudden flash of pleasure...I recognized Mrs. Lincoln as a loyal, liberty-loving woman, more staunch even than her husband in opposition to the Rebellion and its cause, and as my very dear friend for life."
(Jane Grey Swisshelm: "Half a Century", p. 237.)
https://archive.org/stream/halfcentury00swis
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - L Verge - 05-27-2014 05:28 PM
I suspect that Mary's Southern upbringing had something to do with her being perhaps publicly reticent to express any views on women's liberalism. Southern ladies of Mary's class were raised to be the tender keeper of husband, home, and children. By the time that the Seneca Falls movement gathered speed, Mary had fallen into those accepted roles - despite the encouragement that her father and Henry Clay had given her by allowing her participation in political conversations and the behind-the-scenes talks she likely had with her husband.
When the Civil War came and went, Southern females were quite busy picking up the pieces of their lives, learning to manage in the absence of a man, rebuild any livelihoods for survival, etc. They probably didn't realize that they were learning what it was going to take to gain some semblance of equality.
On the other end, some of their Northern sisters had gotten their feet in the doors of opportunity before the war with jobs, better educations, and the like. The war sharpened their skills in management via organizing sanitary fairs, leading Christian crusades that assisted various charities, and learning to work the press. It took awhile for the Southern sisters to learn the skills of rebuilding as well as changing their roles in society.
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - LincolnToddFan - 05-27-2014 09:38 PM
(05-27-2014 04:18 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: This is how Jane Grey Swisshelm recalled one White House reception: "When I came to Mrs. Lincoln, she did not catch the name at first, and asked to hear it again, then repeated it, and a sudden glow of pleasure lit her face, as she held out her hand and said how very glad she was to see me. I objected to giving her my hand because my black glove would soil her white one; but she said: 'Then I shall preserve the glove to remember a great pleasure, for I have long wished to see you.'...I understood at once that I had met one with whom I was in sympathy. No politeness could have summoned that sudden flash of pleasure...I recognized Mrs. Lincoln as a loyal, liberty-loving woman, more staunch even than her husband in opposition to the Rebellion and its cause, and as my very dear friend for life."
(Jane Grey Swisshelm: "Half a Century", p. 237.)
https://archive.org/stream/halfcentury00swis
Eva E,
Thanks for printing this anecdote. It shows Mary at her best, the part of her that was overshadowed by incidents such as occurred at City Point.
Jane Swisshelm was prepared to dislike Mrs. Lincoln and ended up being her staunch friend and advocate for the rest of her life. She genuinely mourned and wrote a moving obituary when Mary passed away.
RE: Mary Lincoln: non-feminist? - Anita - 07-17-2014 12:22 PM
This is from a Woman Suffrage Timeline 1840-1920 on the National Women's History Museum website.
"1861-1865
During the Civil War, efforts for the suffrage movement come to a halt. Women put their energies toward the war effort."