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+--- Thread: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial (/thread-1217.html)
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - Gene C - 10-16-2013 10:44 AM
Which branch of government is specifically responsible for determining what government functions are shut down or reduced?
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - Rob Wick - 10-16-2013 11:32 AM
Given that Congress controls the purse strings, I would say them.
Best
Rob
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - BettyO - 10-16-2013 01:49 PM
Quote:Well, this voter won't take the blame this time because I did not vote for any of those who are "misrepresenting" me currently on Capitol Hill or down the street...
I'll second that, Laurie....
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - brtmchl - 10-16-2013 01:54 PM
(10-16-2013 10:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: Which branch of government is specifically responsible for determining what government functions are shut down or reduced?
I believe it is the Executive Branch. Congress can choose to fund parts of the Government but ultimately it is the White House who has to sign each bill.
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - RJNorton - 10-16-2013 02:10 PM
I watched an interesting discussion this morning in which one gentleman (whose name I have already forgotten) suggested President Obama could legally ignore the debt limit, reopen the government, and involk the 14th Amendment ("the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned") to pay the country's bills, etc. if needed.
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - L Verge - 10-16-2013 02:24 PM
(10-16-2013 01:54 PM)brtmchl Wrote:(10-16-2013 10:44 AM)Gene C Wrote: Which branch of government is specifically responsible for determining what government functions are shut down or reduced?
I believe it is the Executive Branch. Congress can choose to fund parts of the Government but ultimately it is the White House who has to sign each bill.
Since most of the government agencies affected by the shut-down are under the purview of Cabinet departments (NPS under Interior), I suspect that somehow the chain of responsibility goes back to the Executive branch.
I also question why this seems to be a returning problem each year as of late. Our wise and noble leaders know that the budget has to be approved by October 1 to avoid this nonsense, so there should be (IMO) more politicking done behind the scenes starting in the spring of each year.
Do they enjoy putting John Q Public through this? All it seems to achieve is the American public growing more and more discontent with our leaders - or is that the long-range plans? As you can see, I am growing very disconcerted and wary in my old age.
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - Rob Wick - 10-16-2013 02:43 PM
The whole reason for the shutdown is that there was no money to pay the costs of each department. Bills to fund the government, constitutionally, originate in the House. The president can propose legislation, but he cannot unilaterally make the decision to re-open the government. If that was the case, there would have been no need for the shutdown in the first place. He has to have something to sign, and that something comes from Congress.
As for the debt ceiling, which is a different animal altogether, some scholars believe the president has the ability to bypass Congress since it would be unconstitutional to not pay the government's debt. That would be for the Supreme Court to determine.
Best
Rob
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - J. Beckert - 10-16-2013 03:14 PM
I think Thomas Sowell summed this up rather well.
http://www.hpe.com/opinion/x559273386/Thomas-Sowell-Who-shut-down-the-government
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - L Verge - 10-16-2013 03:18 PM
If I remember correctly, a commentator over the past week commented that the House produced the bill for full funding of the government at the beginning of this debacle.
However, they also attached their specific request to not fund Obamacare. That's when the cat-fight began because Obama and his cohorts in the Senate were not going to let their one signature piece of legislation over the past five years be picked apart.
I thought at the time that those opposed to Obamacare should have really fought the system in the early stages and not let it be signed into law - and ultimately given the rubber stamp by the Supreme Court. Of course, since the powers-at-be are not affected by most of Obamacare, why should they care?
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - Gene C - 10-16-2013 03:27 PM
According to the Narcissist government policy platform, everything is working as planned and right on schedule.
Who we are and why you should support us:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
(please see traits and signs)
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - brtmchl - 10-16-2013 04:11 PM
The reason this comes up so often is that our Government has not passed a budget for 5 years. Even during the 1st year Obama was in office when Democrats controlled both houses. We have been operating through a series of continuing resolutions.
Aside from these CR's which have been acting as a budget the issue of the debt ceiling continues. I find it irresponsible to continue to raise our borrowing powers without having an actual budget. Irresponsible by both sides.
The issue to defund Obamacare was in order to not have to raise the debt ceiling, which Republicans immediatly took off the table. The only thing they have wanted during these last few weeks was to push the individual mandate off a year. Which seems fair considering that big corporations, congressional staffers and unions already have this deal.
Sadly this could have easily been averted but it seems that this is all about power. I have heard that if there is a default then the President can actually be impeached. The Constitution actually states that the debts need to be paid.
Or at least the interest on the debt that tax revenues suggest can and will be met. Other programs will have to be cut however.
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - Rob Wick - 10-16-2013 06:14 PM
Exactly what part of the Constitution allows for a law which was passed, upheld by the Supreme Court and was a major issue in a campaign which saw its strongest promoter reelected, to be defunded on the demand of the losing party? If the GOP continues down this path, and allows its extreme wing to continue to make policy, it will soon go the way of the Whigs and the Federalists.
Best
Rob
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - My Name Is Kate - 10-16-2013 06:49 PM
But we have to pass Obamacare. How else will we find out what's in it? (According to Nancy Pelosi) Everybody knows that nobody reads all that legal stuff.
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - brtmchl - 10-16-2013 07:11 PM
(10-16-2013 06:14 PM)Rob Wick Wrote: Exactly what part of the Constitution allows for a law which was passed, upheld by the Supreme Court and was a major issue in a campaign which saw its strongest promoter reelected, to be defunded on the demand of the losing party? If the GOP continues down this path, and allows its extreme wing to continue to make policy, it will soon go the way of the Whigs and the Federalists.
Best
Rob
Wasn't doing away with the whigs a good thing?
RE: Mowing the Lawn at the Lincoln Memorial - L Verge - 10-16-2013 07:55 PM
(10-16-2013 06:14 PM)Rob Wick Wrote: Exactly what part of the Constitution allows for a law which was passed, upheld by the Supreme Court and was a major issue in a campaign which saw its strongest promoter reelected, to be defunded on the demand of the losing party? If the GOP continues down this path, and allows its extreme wing to continue to make policy, it will soon go the way of the Whigs and the Federalists.
Best
Rob
It's been over forty years since I taught government (and hated every moment of it!); but if I recall correctly, voting for a national referendum to repeal or de-fund Obamacare would do the trick. And it would not be on the demand of the losing party; it would be on the demand of the American public.
P.S. I am typing this at about 8 pm. I don't have the TV on, but they must have opened the government because there are lots of jets flying over my house right now. I live about ten minutes from the flight line at Joint Base Andrews and know whenever our fly boys are told to scramble.