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+--- Thread: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed (/thread-1015.html)
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Eva Elisabeth - 10-14-2013 04:05 AM
Interesting idea. I assume you mean the presidency - not the law business?
I think he wouldn't have thought about this in terms of "regretting", he would have posed the question differently. Whether with or without God in the "background", Lincoln "believed in predestination, foreordination, that all things were fixed, doomed one way or the other, from which there was no appeal" and that "what is to be will be, and no cares of ours can arrest nor reverse the decree".
Regarding the presidency he described himself as "an accidental instrument, perhaps I should say, of a great cause" and "a humble instrument in the hands of the Almighty".
I think he would have posed such a question like this: "Why is it?" or "Why me?"
I wonder what Mary would have done had she lived nowadays - would she have started a career of her own? And what kind of? She loved politics - would she have taken an office, too? Or would her temper have impeded that?
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Rogerm - 10-14-2013 09:28 AM
With regard to law, I think Lincoln once said that Robert, with all of his educational opportunities, would never have as much fun practicing law as he had; probably referring to some of his time on the circuit with his lawyer friends. Mary Lincoln might have been most similar to Hilary Clinton in the twenty-first century. However, as you suggest, Eva, her explosive temper might have kept her from running for political office.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Jim Garrett - 10-15-2013 07:57 AM
(10-03-2013 11:50 AM)L Verge Wrote: Caroline has made an excellent point, and as those of you who have visited Petersen House know, the double parlor is not very large. With the interrogations going on and the amount of people coming and going right past her, it is a wonder that she did not "shut down" completely. And I would bet that Stanton and crew were not the least bit worried about noise - unless they thought it was disturbing the dying President.
I believe there were doors between the rooms of the double parlor, but have been taken off. If I'm correct the hinges are still there. I think I also read somewhere that the wall separating the two rooms had been moved about a foot by Louis Schade.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2014 04:46 AM
Mary was not present when her husband died, nor ever after Willie's death entered the Green Room or the guest room where he had died. But was she present WHEN he died? Or when Eddie or Tad died?
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - RJNorton - 08-25-2014 05:15 AM
(08-25-2014 04:46 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Mary was not present when her husband died, nor ever after Willie's death entered the Green Room or the guest room where he had died. But was she present WHEN he died? Or when Eddie or Tad died?
Eva, I checked Lincoln's Sons, and there is not specific mention that she was physically present in the rooms at the exact time of death (for all 3). Possibly there are other sources that may have a more specific answer.
Here is the way the Chicago Tribune reported the news of Tad's passing:
"At 7.30 on yesterday [Saturday] morning Tad Lincoln died at the Clifton House on Wabash Avenue, where he had been staying since his return from Europe. The cause of his death was dropsy of the chest. The first symptoms showed themselves while he was abroad, but it was not until his return, the middle of May, that his condition became alarming. The disease made its appearance in the left chest, afterwards attacking the right chest, and soon after it caused death by compression of the heart. He was convalescent at one time, but he got up one night slightly clad and swooned. This was followed by a relapse, after which he grew steadily worse. He was attended by Dr. Charles Oilman Smith."
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2014 06:39 AM
Thank you, Roger! I just think if she was present it must have had a(n additional) terrible effect on her.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - HerbS - 08-25-2014 06:57 AM
Eva and Roger.,you are correct.Death of a loved one is very tough to handle.We all deal with death in a different"way,shape,or form".
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Eva Elisabeth - 08-31-2014 09:15 AM
Yesterday I was looking for this again and came across that when Tad had died, "this time Mary Lincoln had not been denied a deathbed vigil as she had with her husband and two other sons" after having nursed him mostly by herself. Also this time she attendet a brief service at Robert's house. (Jean Baker: "MTL", p. 308, paperb. ed. [in "Exile and Return"]) I checked the sources she gave for the passage ("Mary letters"), and drew a blank on a source for the part of the denied deathbed vigil at Willie's and Eddie's death.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - HerbS - 08-31-2014 11:53 AM
Thanks for being so honest Eva.I am drawing a blank also.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - RJNorton - 08-31-2014 12:09 PM
I agree with Eva and Herb. I tried finding something in the Turners' book and could not find a reference to this. Still I wonder why Jean Baker would say that without any source at all.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - HerbS - 08-31-2014 03:42 PM
I e-mailed Jean Baker today,and I will let all of you know if and when the response comes.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - Eva Elisabeth - 08-31-2014 04:31 PM
That's GREAT, Herb!!! Thanks! Especially in Eddie's case I just can't imagine she was not tending him when he died. (Herb, do you think in case she replies it was possible to add a request what/which of Robert's statements made her think Mary Harlan might have had an alcoholism problem?)
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - HerbS - 08-31-2014 10:18 PM
I have run into an e-mail road block! Jean Baker has retired from Goucher College.Thus,no such luck in contacting her.My e-mail is a"dropped,e-mail.But,I never give up.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - LincolnToddFan - 08-31-2014 11:22 PM
(08-31-2014 09:15 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Yesterday I was looking for this again and came across that when Tad had died, "this time Mary Lincoln had not been denied a deathbed vigil as she had with her husband and two other sons" after having nursed him mostly by herself. Also this time she attendet a brief service at Robert's house. (Jean Baker: "MTL", p. 308, paperb. ed. [in "Exile and Return"]) I checked the sources she gave for the passage ("Mary letters"), and drew a blank on a source for the part of the denied deathbed vigil at Willie's and Eddie's death.
Thanks Eva. I have the highest respect for Dr. Baker, but I have never read that Mary was denied a deathbed vigil for Eddy or Willie.
RE: Mary Lincoln's presence at Abraham's death-bed - HerbS - 09-01-2014 06:59 AM
I sent my e-mail to the Goucher College office of the registrar,and I hope that I get some kind of info back.