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No sympathy for George - Dave Taylor - 06-21-2013 04:54 PM
Up on eBay right now is a set of letters sent in July of 1865. Every once and awhile there are letters or diaries like these on eBay that make a passing mention of the assassination along the lines of, "How terrible for our republic, etc." This letter discusses briefly the execution of the conspirators. The eBay seller put up this excerpt which I found humorous:
"...what do you think about Ms Surratt being hung, it ought never to have been, imprisonment for ten years would have been about right for her and Harrold, but Payne & Atzerodt of course deserve hanging, they were cowardly wretches..."
Based on Powell's crime, I don't think anyone expected him to live and, of course, it surprised many that Mary was hanged due to her gender and age. However, I found this interesting as it is the first time I've ever come across someone who would have spared Herold's life. What humored me, however, is the lack of sympathy for George. Even though he didn't technically do anything, this author still saw him as a cowardly wretch deserving of death.
RE: No sympathy for George - BettyO - 06-21-2013 06:37 PM
I don't know how the folk came by these descriptions at the time other than what they were reading in the papers of course. A surprising assessment of Herold's sentence since Stanton had pretty much issued the edict that anyone "aiding and abetting the assassins" would hang....
I love these eye witness accounts, however! Great primary source documents....
RE: No sympathy for George - JMadonna - 06-21-2013 07:13 PM
(06-21-2013 04:54 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: What humored me, however, is the lack of sympathy for George. Even though he didn't technically do anything, this author still saw him as a cowardly wretch deserving of death.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Washington hasn't changed much.
RE: No sympathy for George - L Verge - 06-21-2013 08:09 PM
Note that the seller does not know the correct date of the hanging - he says June 10, 1865 - or else somewhere in the content is the wrong date.
RE: No sympathy for George - LincolnMan - 06-21-2013 08:23 PM
Do you the price is a bit high?
RE: No sympathy for George - GARY POPOLO - 06-21-2013 08:27 PM
(06-21-2013 04:54 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: Up on eBay right now is a set of letters sent in July of 1865. Every once and awhile there are letters or diaries like these on eBay that make a passing mention of the assassination along the lines of, "How terrible for our republic, etc." This letter discusses briefly the execution of the conspirators. The eBay seller put up this excerpt which I found humorous:As far as sympathy for George I don't think he deserved any. Although he did not (do any outward crime) he was in the meeting with Booth and the other conspirators when the plan to kidnap / kill Lincoln was finalized. After first refusing to kill V.P. Johnson as Booth requested then agreeing to his part knowing that he would in fact not follow through he should have been man enough to report the plot and he could have ended up being the hero who saved Lincoln instead of ending up at the end of a rope with the other conspirators. He was as much at fault as the others in the group. That is my feeling on George. As far as Herold and his guilt he also deserved to hang. I have read a lot as the rest of you about him and he to me was a lot smarter and devious then a lot of people gave him credit for. He was with Booth from the beginning and loved the attention and the thought of being known as Booth's friend. He lived in Booth's inner circle and enjoyed all the benefits that came with that relationship. To me he was as guilty as Booth in the murder of the President. As if he had pulled the trigger himself. Best Gary
"...what do you think about Ms Surratt being hung, it ought never to have been, imprisonment for ten years would have been about right for her and Harrold, but Payne & Atzerodt of course deserve hanging, they were cowardly wretches..."
Based on Powell's crime, I don't think anyone expected him to live and, of course, it surprised many that Mary was hanged due to her gender and age. However, I found this interesting as it is the first time I've ever come across someone who would have spared Herold's life. What humored me, however, is the lack of sympathy for George. Even though he didn't technically do anything, this author still saw him as a cowardly wretch deserving of death.
RE: No sympathy for George - L Verge - 06-21-2013 08:34 PM
Terry Alford and I were discussing this item this afternoon. It is commanding a very good price. Terry says that such an item generally brings about $2000. We were wondering from whose collection it was coming. We had not seen mention of Richard and Kellie Gutman.
Most people know the Gutmans for their collection of Booth photos and the subsequent book. However, they also have/had an great collection of paper ephemera. Several of us visited with them in the 1970s, and the collection was large at that time. I can only imagine what it eventually grew into.
How many of you know that Richard is also an expert and author on the history of the great American diners? Remember the Blue Plate Specials??
Without sounding crass, I hope that history continues to portray the conspirators as all guilty as charged. The story of their varying involvements with Booth is a wonderful object lesson for teaching future generations of the perils of following the activities of a gang. Viva la "vicarious liability." We've used that technique at Surratt House for nigh onto forty years now. I once had a vice principal hug me for using that analogy with his school group.
RE: No sympathy for George - JMadonna - 06-22-2013 06:51 AM
(06-21-2013 08:34 PM)L Verge Wrote: Without sounding crass, I hope that history continues to portray the conspirators as all guilty as charged. The story of their varying involvements with Booth is a wonderful object lesson for teaching future generations of the perils of following the activities of a gang. Viva la "vicarious liability." We've used that technique at Surratt House for nigh onto forty years now. I once had a vice principal hug me for using that analogy with his school group.
As well he should have. Excellent point! We've all been victims of the psychological ruse of being out of the mainstream of thought if we don't use a certain shampoo or toilet paper or support a political theory. Question everything from every angle.
RE: No sympathy for George - LincolnMan - 06-22-2013 03:58 PM
Great point Laurie- never really considered the "gang" angle.
RE: No sympathy for George - Craig Hipkins - 06-22-2013 08:58 PM
Poor George always has always had the stigma of "coward" attached to his name! At least he didn't shoot anyone in the back of the head!
RE: No sympathy for George - LincolnMan - 06-23-2013 06:29 AM
I wonder was he really a coward or did he realize that what he was "assigned" to do was evil-and so he backed out.
RE: No sympathy for George - JMadonna - 06-23-2013 06:59 AM
(06-23-2013 06:29 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: I wonder was he really a coward or did he realize that what he was "assigned" to do was evil-and so he backed out.George had his principles. Kidnapping was OK but murder was not. He stood up for those principles when the pressure was put on him. A coward would have succumbed.
RE: No sympathy for George - Gene C - 06-23-2013 08:25 AM
I agreee Jerod. Fear of doing the wrong thing, and not doing it, is not being a coward.
RE: No sympathy for George - My Name Is Kate - 06-23-2013 02:12 PM
George wasn't a coward for not wanting to kill someone. But if he recognized his assignment as murder, why didn't he do something to stop the others from committing murder, i.e., go to the authorities? Did he think that would make him a snitch? Did he secretly want Lincoln and the others to die, but didn't want to personally be involved in it? Did he just not care enough what happened to them, to do something about it? Was he afraid to go to the authorities because he might be held responsible for his part in the conspiracy? Did he not know what to do, so he did nothing, except get drunk?
RE: No sympathy for George - MaddieM - 06-23-2013 08:06 PM
(06-21-2013 04:54 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote: Up on eBay right now is a set of letters sent in July of 1865. Every once and awhile there are letters or diaries like these on eBay that make a passing mention of the assassination along the lines of, "How terrible for our republic, etc." This letter discusses briefly the execution of the conspirators. The eBay seller put up this excerpt which I found humorous:
"...what do you think about Ms Surratt being hung, it ought never to have been, imprisonment for ten years would have been about right for her and Harrold, but Payne & Atzerodt of course deserve hanging, they were cowardly wretches..."
Based on Powell's crime, I don't think anyone expected him to live and, of course, it surprised many that Mary was hanged due to her gender and age. However, I found this interesting as it is the first time I've ever come across someone who would have spared Herold's life. What humored me, however, is the lack of sympathy for George. Even though he didn't technically do anything, this author still saw him as a cowardly wretch deserving of death.
I think poor old Georgie got a bit of a raw deal... he wasn't the best looker of the group and sadly, I think this coloured people's perceptions of him. His hunched and scruffy demeanour did him no favours...and the press ripped him apart in the looks department. I'm always amazed when I look at photos of him because he looks about 45....at least.
(06-22-2013 08:58 PM)Craig Hipkins Wrote: Poor George always has always had the stigma of "coward" attached to his name! At least he didn't shoot anyone in the back of the head!
My take on it is that what they did was wrong and they got the punishment deserving for that time. None of them would have hanged now...at least not in the UK. But...they were also mostly young, unworldly and did what young people often do - make very stupid mistakes. It was war time, and they were fired up and clearly manipulated to a degree and most likely doing what most naive young people do...not thinking about the full implications and far reaching effects of their actions. Is this an excuse? Not really. But it explains a lot. Booth? He was the puppet master in my opinion...whilst somebody else yanked his own strings.
(06-23-2013 06:59 AM)JMadonna Wrote:(06-23-2013 06:29 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: I wonder was he really a coward or did he realize that what he was "assigned" to do was evil-and so he backed out.George had his principles. Kidnapping was OK but murder was not. He stood up for those principles when the pressure was put on him. A coward would have succumbed.
If he was that brave, he would have stood up to Booth and threatened to tell. But he didn't. None of them did. I think he merely bottled it and got bladdered to blot out the whole nightmare he'd found himself in.